1 00:01:03,819 --> 00:00:31,320 [Music] 2 00:01:06,370 --> 00:01:03,829 and good afternoon from Philadelphia 3 00:01:08,649 --> 00:01:06,380 Frank here with another episode of UFO 4 00:01:11,260 --> 00:01:08,659 news network Sunday we're ready to go 5 00:01:13,300 --> 00:01:11,270 with a big panel to talk about more of 6 00:01:15,670 --> 00:01:13,310 what we talked about last week a gear 7 00:01:18,609 --> 00:01:15,680 that everybody can use to help them 8 00:01:21,010 --> 00:01:18,619 gather data on any possible UFO 9 00:01:23,830 --> 00:01:21,020 sightings that we might have so let's 10 00:01:25,899 --> 00:01:23,840 not waste any time let's bring on our 11 00:01:28,450 --> 00:01:25,909 guest panel for today great panel we've 12 00:01:31,779 --> 00:01:28,460 got and to do that I'm going to bring on 13 00:01:34,420 --> 00:01:31,789 my co-host and the real reason that 14 00:01:35,370 --> 00:01:34,430 aliens won't talk to us the one and only 15 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:35,380 chant Hannah 16 00:01:41,380 --> 00:01:38,930 how're you doing today thank you for 17 00:01:43,889 --> 00:01:41,390 that fabulous introduction we do have a 18 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:43,899 great show this is a part two to 19 00:01:50,219 --> 00:01:47,210 equipment's equipment tools apps and 20 00:01:52,719 --> 00:01:50,229 skill sets used to procure possible UAP 21 00:01:55,270 --> 00:01:52,729 activity the first person I'd like to 22 00:01:57,639 --> 00:01:55,280 introduce on to the show is rich Hoffman 23 00:01:59,080 --> 00:01:57,649 I don't know how anybody can't know who 24 00:02:01,359 --> 00:01:59,090 rich Hoffman is but I'm gonna go ahead 25 00:02:03,039 --> 00:02:01,369 and introduce him and he is on the board 26 00:02:06,450 --> 00:02:03,049 of the SCU which is the scientific 27 00:02:08,650 --> 00:02:06,460 coalition for you a piece he has a BA in 28 00:02:10,719 --> 00:02:08,660 organizational communications from 29 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:10,729 Wright State University he is in the 30 00:02:15,009 --> 00:02:12,890 information technology consultant and 31 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:15,019 strategist he has been a defense 32 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:17,450 contractor for over 20 years working 33 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:19,970 primarily for the Army Materiel Command 34 00:02:25,210 --> 00:02:22,730 HQ with a variety of companies currently 35 00:02:27,610 --> 00:02:25,220 mr. Hoffman is an enterprise architect 36 00:02:28,990 --> 00:02:27,620 working at Redstone Arsenal and the 37 00:02:34,210 --> 00:02:29,000 Marshall Space Flight Center in 38 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:34,220 Huntsville Ala over 54 years experience 39 00:02:38,199 --> 00:02:36,410 in investigations a research on the 40 00:02:40,060 --> 00:02:38,209 research of the UFO topic and mr. 41 00:02:41,949 --> 00:02:40,070 Hoffman has served as director of 42 00:02:44,199 --> 00:02:41,959 Investigations star team manager and 43 00:02:45,819 --> 00:02:44,209 director of strategic projects as well 44 00:02:48,580 --> 00:02:45,829 as state director in MUFON and other 45 00:02:51,370 --> 00:02:48,590 organizations we have Earl Grey he 46 00:02:53,530 --> 00:02:51,380 actually has quite a long bio but he 47 00:02:56,259 --> 00:02:53,540 sent me along just a few short sentences 48 00:02:58,479 --> 00:02:56,269 and that is he is Mullins chief 49 00:03:01,599 --> 00:02:58,489 investigator an assistant state director 50 00:03:04,860 --> 00:03:01,609 in Southern California as well as member 51 00:03:11,770 --> 00:03:08,890 experience dirt we a Michael Hall he is 52 00:03:13,510 --> 00:03:11,780 an icon in the realm of ufology he is 53 00:03:15,790 --> 00:03:13,520 the Honorable Michael Hall former 54 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:15,800 Superior Court Judge and fearless leader 55 00:03:21,010 --> 00:03:18,050 of the UFO i-team he's located in 56 00:03:23,770 --> 00:03:21,020 Edmonds Washington also known as a 57 00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:23,780 paranormal lawyer he created an his head 58 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:27,260 of the UFO eye team the UFO eye team is 59 00:03:33,250 --> 00:03:30,370 a crack team of UFO researchers who are 60 00:03:35,530 --> 00:03:33,260 dedicated as dedicated as her equipment 61 00:03:37,870 --> 00:03:35,540 as sophisticated and is used in their 62 00:03:40,780 --> 00:03:37,880 UFO detection efforts in the field we 63 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:40,790 also have a Shan herd who's been on our 64 00:03:46,660 --> 00:03:43,850 show many times he's an investigator for 65 00:03:49,449 --> 00:03:46,670 Phoenix MUFON and he was raised in born 66 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:49,459 in Spokane Washington he moved to AZ in 67 00:03:55,330 --> 00:03:53,690 1980 and let's see he has a technical 68 00:03:57,370 --> 00:03:55,340 field background regarding civil 69 00:03:59,979 --> 00:03:57,380 engineering information technology and 70 00:04:02,470 --> 00:03:59,989 geographic information systems for two 71 00:04:05,290 --> 00:04:02,480 decades now he attended Arizona State 72 00:04:07,660 --> 00:04:05,300 University and graduated from WP Carey 73 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:07,670 School Corey School of Business you'll 74 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:09,290 have to correct me on that Shane where 75 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:11,930 he received a certified public manager 76 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:15,050 certificate and he also runs a staff 77 00:04:19,479 --> 00:04:17,090 with an annual budget of about five 78 00:04:22,870 --> 00:04:19,489 million dollars he is a civil government 79 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:22,880 employee and he's devoted to the topic 80 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:25,010 of ufology I'd like to welcome everybody 81 00:04:36,750 --> 00:04:26,930 on our show today thank you for being on 82 00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:36,760 with us I think everybody has Michael 83 00:04:46,529 --> 00:04:38,960 you know I've been wondering why UT 84 00:04:49,540 --> 00:04:46,539 wasn't talking with us the master a 85 00:04:52,300 --> 00:04:49,550 Shana before we get started you were out 86 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:52,310 at a little event where Tom DeLonge and 87 00:04:57,250 --> 00:04:54,770 his co-author Peter Levin DES were 88 00:05:00,850 --> 00:04:57,260 signing books and there was a surprise 89 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:00,860 special guest a Jim Simha van so before 90 00:05:05,740 --> 00:05:02,450 we get into the gear once you tell us a 91 00:05:07,450 --> 00:05:05,750 little bit about that oh yeah it was fun 92 00:05:10,029 --> 00:05:07,460 it was for for a book signing in 93 00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:10,039 Encinitas California and if you've ever 94 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:12,710 seen or been to to the Stars or offices 95 00:05:19,330 --> 00:05:15,410 it's just a very small little little 96 00:05:21,550 --> 00:05:19,340 building and you know that again it was 97 00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:21,560 for the release of gods man and more the 98 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:24,500 late latest book written with Peter 99 00:05:29,230 --> 00:05:25,250 lavinda 100 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:29,240 and Tom DeLonge and so Jason McKellen 101 00:05:36,910 --> 00:05:31,970 and I just shot over drove over from 102 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:36,920 Phoenix and stood in a line there for an 103 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:39,050 hour or two and so there were plenty of 104 00:05:43,180 --> 00:05:40,850 people there and then you walk through 105 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:43,190 and you got a chance to you know chat 106 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:44,930 with them for a couple minutes and and 107 00:05:51,450 --> 00:05:48,410 in fact before it was you know formal 108 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:51,460 and stuff we were standing there and 109 00:05:58,150 --> 00:05:55,970 Peter Levin de Tom and and Jim Sullivan 110 00:05:59,740 --> 00:05:58,160 walked in and we were speaking with some 111 00:06:01,390 --> 00:05:59,750 of the folks there so we got a chit chat 112 00:06:03,670 --> 00:06:01,400 for a minute to it which is really 113 00:06:05,710 --> 00:06:03,680 interesting and in Jim it's just really 114 00:06:09,310 --> 00:06:05,720 one of the nicest people he's very 115 00:06:11,470 --> 00:06:09,320 cordial same with Peter and then when we 116 00:06:13,570 --> 00:06:11,480 you know went through the formal line 117 00:06:15,550 --> 00:06:13,580 got her book sign and stuff they they 118 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:15,560 were perfectly willing to chitchat with 119 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:16,970 you know they asked us you know where 120 00:06:21,850 --> 00:06:19,310 we're from and you know who are we 121 00:06:23,500 --> 00:06:21,860 basically and you know indicated the you 122 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:23,510 know part of MUFON they're like oh 123 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:25,130 that's terrific and you know they're 124 00:06:28,990 --> 00:06:27,110 just super nice they were they were 125 00:06:31,390 --> 00:06:29,000 interested they were engaged and I mean 126 00:06:33,070 --> 00:06:31,400 it was really worth doing and haven't 127 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:33,080 got through the book yet but I'm excited 128 00:06:37,630 --> 00:06:35,690 to do so and yeah I was just a cool fun 129 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:37,640 little thing to do and not even realize 130 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:40,130 tom was so tall he's like six for some 131 00:06:47,170 --> 00:06:43,010 yeah yeah I've seen that and yeah he is 132 00:06:49,690 --> 00:06:47,180 a tall guy but any any hot information 133 00:06:52,270 --> 00:06:49,700 come about from all that no just small 134 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:52,280 talk and you know just moving along 135 00:06:57,700 --> 00:06:54,890 through the line unfortunately but I did 136 00:06:59,740 --> 00:06:57,710 get a one of the staff that worked there 137 00:07:01,960 --> 00:06:59,750 we know her Angela she she's a real 138 00:07:03,820 --> 00:07:01,970 sweetheart anyways we got a tuck our 139 00:07:06,250 --> 00:07:03,830 head back in there and see their offices 140 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:06,260 which was kind of cool so and it you 141 00:07:10,270 --> 00:07:07,690 know it's kind of what you see on 142 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:10,280 unidentified again it's a small place 143 00:07:16,180 --> 00:07:14,450 but you know it is very cool I remember 144 00:07:18,010 --> 00:07:16,190 it was so fun it was just so thrilled 145 00:07:20,890 --> 00:07:18,020 idea awesome awesome 146 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:20,900 I wanted to bring something to our 147 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:24,050 panel's attention and that is rich 148 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:29,450 Hoffman actually offered a really 149 00:07:34,210 --> 00:07:32,810 wonderful series of articles I guess he 150 00:07:36,909 --> 00:07:34,220 he'll have to correct me on what to call 151 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:36,919 them but their reports essentially on 152 00:07:43,190 --> 00:07:39,090 aids to UFO investigations 153 00:07:46,940 --> 00:07:43,200 and these documents include some really 154 00:07:50,300 --> 00:07:46,950 fascinating applications and other 155 00:07:52,580 --> 00:07:50,310 things that can be used I believe as my 156 00:07:56,750 --> 00:07:52,590 understanding the perspective I have on 157 00:07:58,879 --> 00:07:56,760 it to try and detect UFO or UAP activity 158 00:08:01,370 --> 00:07:58,889 before I read any of this material 159 00:08:03,980 --> 00:08:01,380 because I have two documents from rich 160 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:03,990 on this rich can you give us a synopsis 161 00:08:08,750 --> 00:08:06,450 on what you think what you can share 162 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:08,760 what these documents are when is aids to 163 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:10,650 UFO investigations and the other one is 164 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:18,210 tools tonight there you go yeah so just 165 00:08:23,629 --> 00:08:20,490 of it is that when I was the deputy 166 00:08:26,750 --> 00:08:23,639 director of Investigations for MUFON and 167 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:26,760 also that and moved into this star team 168 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:29,130 manager role the the key thing that I 169 00:08:32,810 --> 00:08:30,690 found was a lot of people just weren't 170 00:08:35,750 --> 00:08:32,820 familiar with what the capabilities of 171 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:35,760 their cell phones were and realizing 172 00:08:42,980 --> 00:08:39,690 that there's so many people that are out 173 00:08:44,300 --> 00:08:42,990 there armed with a cell phone why not 174 00:08:47,060 --> 00:08:44,310 take advantage of some of the 175 00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:47,070 capabilities of the cell phones now in 176 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:49,110 addition to that I was trying to be able 177 00:08:57,950 --> 00:08:52,770 to get improvements in and actually 178 00:09:05,570 --> 00:08:57,960 image take and use the standard cell 179 00:09:07,730 --> 00:09:05,580 phone and of those they keep getting at 180 00:09:12,770 --> 00:09:07,740 the same time I'm there were other 181 00:09:15,710 --> 00:09:12,780 camera app allows you to do manual kind 182 00:09:20,090 --> 00:09:15,720 of settings on camera or even improve 183 00:09:22,820 --> 00:09:20,100 the quality of the image which are 184 00:09:26,780 --> 00:09:22,830 things like you know for example if 185 00:09:31,829 --> 00:09:26,790 you're looking for things like made are 186 00:09:40,889 --> 00:09:34,800 a commoner kind of leggings um there's a 187 00:09:42,509 --> 00:09:40,899 full app called 10 millimeter and it 188 00:09:44,999 --> 00:09:42,519 basically goes through and for example 189 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:45,009 records the background radiation if I 190 00:09:51,540 --> 00:09:48,370 create a decimal units or Mela cows and 191 00:09:54,090 --> 00:09:51,550 uh you able to now set the sensitivity 192 00:09:56,999 --> 00:09:54,100 of that and do a lot of neat things with 193 00:10:01,110 --> 00:09:57,009 it in terms of detecting things your 194 00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:01,120 cell array of I mean the there's an 195 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:02,620 accelerometer already built into your 196 00:10:06,299 --> 00:10:04,689 phone there's a graviton that's also 197 00:10:13,110 --> 00:10:06,309 built into your phone and a lot of those 198 00:10:15,030 --> 00:10:13,120 features and stuff like that or you know 199 00:10:15,929 --> 00:10:15,040 that there's like things like the like I 200 00:10:17,819 --> 00:10:15,939 was mention about what the key 201 00:10:19,139 --> 00:10:17,829 I was rad we started this asilah my 202 00:10:26,730 --> 00:10:19,149 camera and I was using their cell phones 203 00:10:29,519 --> 00:10:26,740 again to record a beautiful kind of of 204 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:29,529 an app that that's that's out there 205 00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:32,110 which which basically allows you to get 206 00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:34,720 a whole bunch of the GPS coordinates and 207 00:10:40,759 --> 00:10:37,120 various other things on it and that's 208 00:10:49,890 --> 00:10:40,769 the own light the other light gives you 209 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:52,480 crosshair would be able to take the 210 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:54,650 photograph you can send out in but the 211 00:10:58,060 --> 00:10:55,970 important thing about it it gives me the 212 00:11:00,100 --> 00:10:58,070 precise time of day the bearings that 213 00:11:02,460 --> 00:11:00,110 actually that they're looking at it 214 00:11:06,820 --> 00:11:02,470 gives me the air there ain't 215 00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:06,830 angular height and it times I can 216 00:11:12,940 --> 00:11:08,720 compute it from that so we don't get 217 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:12,950 that from a simple you point the camera 218 00:11:20,020 --> 00:11:17,210 in a direct and so using something like 219 00:11:22,330 --> 00:11:20,030 that is is extremely important and 220 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:22,340 actually probably should be just 221 00:11:29,950 --> 00:11:25,370 mandatory for anybody to use if I'm 222 00:11:31,410 --> 00:11:29,960 gonna take you up oh so sorry to 223 00:11:42,010 --> 00:11:31,420 interrupt 224 00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:42,020 no mission to loot so starting to 225 00:11:47,620 --> 00:11:44,720 interject you're breaking up yeah so 226 00:11:49,510 --> 00:11:47,630 perhaps you can call us back right now 227 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:49,520 so we can hear better audio from you 228 00:11:56,140 --> 00:11:52,250 because you broke up a good lot of what 229 00:11:58,180 --> 00:11:56,150 you said you were breaking up do you 230 00:12:10,540 --> 00:11:58,190 think you can call back in on audio to 231 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:10,550 try try again okay guys I'll go ahead 232 00:12:15,330 --> 00:12:12,710 and call I'll call you I'll call you 233 00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:15,340 right now as soon as you think okay 234 00:12:23,170 --> 00:12:19,760 alright so while I'm working on that I 235 00:12:25,870 --> 00:12:23,180 was going to ask Michael Hall what do 236 00:12:28,890 --> 00:12:25,880 you and your team use in order to 237 00:12:33,250 --> 00:12:28,900 procure with whatever equipment you have 238 00:12:41,250 --> 00:12:33,260 available to you on your team to procure 239 00:12:45,850 --> 00:12:43,810 there we go then we get back off and 240 00:12:49,150 --> 00:12:45,860 mute there thank you chant for the 241 00:12:50,770 --> 00:12:49,160 question can you hear me good yeah yeah 242 00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:50,780 you're not breaking up it seems like it 243 00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:52,670 was just rich cuz a Shane went for a 244 00:12:57,070 --> 00:12:54,560 while a chance going for a while so it 245 00:13:01,660 --> 00:12:57,080 seems like it might have been over okay 246 00:13:02,810 --> 00:13:01,670 super gosh you know I'm so happy to hear 247 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:02,820 that 248 00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:05,970 last show about the technical gear of 249 00:13:12,380 --> 00:13:09,120 UFO spotting and and research and data 250 00:13:16,340 --> 00:13:12,390 gathering went so well and I'm so glad 251 00:13:20,199 --> 00:13:16,350 we have a major panel back today because 252 00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:20,209 the UFO i-team has been now just 253 00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:23,700 astronomically upping up our game with 254 00:13:30,530 --> 00:13:25,800 gear that we're using of course we've 255 00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:30,540 always had you know major you know video 256 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:33,839 gear that can zoom in quite quite ways 257 00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:35,610 we can we can look at the craters on the 258 00:13:40,610 --> 00:13:37,620 moon let's put it that way very easily 259 00:13:42,620 --> 00:13:40,620 as well as all the galaxies out there 260 00:13:45,019 --> 00:13:42,630 are pretty much available if you know 261 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:45,029 where your you're looking but we have a 262 00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:47,490 FLIR photography we've got forward 263 00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:51,360 infrared photography that will light up 264 00:13:55,579 --> 00:13:54,240 the night sky like you won't believe if 265 00:13:58,670 --> 00:13:55,589 you don't think you're gonna see 266 00:14:02,740 --> 00:13:58,680 anything because of even some overcast 267 00:14:04,460 --> 00:14:02,750 FLIR photography will really give you an 268 00:14:09,230 --> 00:14:04,470 availability that you don't normally 269 00:14:12,740 --> 00:14:09,240 have we have night vision of course and 270 00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:12,750 we have time-lapse photography you know 271 00:14:18,889 --> 00:14:15,120 we don't talk a lot about this simple 272 00:14:21,260 --> 00:14:18,899 idea of time-lapse photography but that 273 00:14:24,650 --> 00:14:21,270 is just a fascinating use for us because 274 00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:24,660 what we'll do is take a giant ambient 275 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:27,600 view of the night sky with one of our 276 00:14:32,780 --> 00:14:30,450 video gear that is just connected to 277 00:14:36,199 --> 00:14:32,790 actually it's a camera that's connected 278 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:36,209 to the time-lapse you know counter and 279 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:40,890 so every oh maybe 30 seconds or so or 280 00:14:46,370 --> 00:14:42,690 whatever we want to set it at we will 281 00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:46,380 get a complete view of the night sky or 282 00:14:53,630 --> 00:14:49,680 we can set it to do every two minutes 283 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:53,640 we'll have a minute long video and then 284 00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:55,890 it'll turn off and every two minutes 285 00:14:59,840 --> 00:14:57,510 again it'll turn on again for a minute 286 00:15:03,110 --> 00:14:59,850 and what we get in that regard 287 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:03,120 when we review those videos is some 288 00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:05,010 amazing anomalies that we don't 289 00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:07,199 necessarily see and they might be very 290 00:15:12,199 --> 00:15:09,720 short-lived we might not be looking in 291 00:15:14,620 --> 00:15:12,209 that direction but the ambient night sky 292 00:15:17,949 --> 00:15:14,630 will show up 293 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:17,959 of some kind of a travel mode of an 294 00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:20,690 object that we can then you know get 295 00:15:26,530 --> 00:15:23,839 into as far as the data and figuring out 296 00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:26,540 if it's an anomalous object or not then 297 00:15:32,350 --> 00:15:29,750 of course we've got Dave Mason's amazing 298 00:15:35,949 --> 00:15:32,360 binoculars that will take the light 299 00:15:41,050 --> 00:15:35,959 frequency of stars the ISS Space Station 300 00:15:43,870 --> 00:15:41,060 or anomalous craft and it will translate 301 00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:43,880 that into audio sound that we can also 302 00:15:48,569 --> 00:15:46,639 do some investigation on to see if it 303 00:15:52,509 --> 00:15:48,579 matches up with any known audio 304 00:15:55,059 --> 00:15:52,519 frequencies that are out there from from 305 00:15:58,509 --> 00:15:55,069 commercial airliners for instance even 306 00:16:01,059 --> 00:15:58,519 the ISS Space Station or stars give a 307 00:16:05,410 --> 00:16:01,069 certain frequency sound off that we can 308 00:16:07,809 --> 00:16:05,420 you know do the due diligence on as well 309 00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:07,819 so we'll get into some of those real 310 00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:09,920 details later on but that's generally 311 00:16:19,889 --> 00:16:17,420 what we've been using lately dan I can't 312 00:16:24,929 --> 00:16:19,899 hear you I can see your lips moving but 313 00:16:26,980 --> 00:16:24,939 that sounds like my boyfriend talking I 314 00:16:30,670 --> 00:16:26,990 wanted to mention a really wonderful 315 00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:30,680 person who is on your team Michael and 316 00:16:35,019 --> 00:16:32,750 that is Dave Mason he was on with us 317 00:16:37,929 --> 00:16:35,029 last show regarding this and he's an 318 00:16:39,939 --> 00:16:37,939 expert on electronic equipment regarding 319 00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,949 what we're talking about and I just 320 00:16:42,879 --> 00:16:41,360 wanted to mention him because he was a 321 00:16:45,850 --> 00:16:42,889 very important part of our last show 322 00:16:48,519 --> 00:16:45,860 regarding this particular topic I wanted 323 00:16:51,519 --> 00:16:48,529 to actually ask rich one more time about 324 00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:51,529 the apps that he was talking about there 325 00:16:56,139 --> 00:16:53,839 are a few apps that he mentioned and a 326 00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:56,149 few I'd like to go ahead and go over are 327 00:17:01,150 --> 00:16:58,250 the theodolite the Stellarium the geo 328 00:17:03,009 --> 00:17:01,160 stopwatch the flightradar24 the tesla 329 00:17:05,020 --> 00:17:03,019 meter the ice seek thermal devices 330 00:17:07,899 --> 00:17:05,030 temperature and humidity devices and 331 00:17:13,899 --> 00:17:07,909 radiation detector devices do you mind 332 00:17:16,449 --> 00:17:13,909 going over that rich that's fine yeah 333 00:17:18,819 --> 00:17:16,459 seem a little bit better now for for now 334 00:17:21,069 --> 00:17:18,829 all right well sorry about that I don't 335 00:17:23,409 --> 00:17:21,079 know what's going on welcome to the 336 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:23,419 world of technology right it's still 337 00:17:28,540 --> 00:17:26,329 pretty amazing you know yeah it really 338 00:17:30,370 --> 00:17:28,550 is okay so let me 339 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:30,380 back and just kind of run through it 340 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:33,050 again I mentioned theodolite zeolites 341 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:35,810 very very a very very good app in the 342 00:17:40,180 --> 00:17:37,490 sense that you actually can take a photo 343 00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:40,190 and you can mail it right to somebody 344 00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:43,280 and all the data associated with the 345 00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:46,550 photograph could be sent by email to any 346 00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:48,830 given location and I mentioned this by 347 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:51,830 the way to Lulu Elizondo 348 00:17:56,290 --> 00:17:54,890 that it would be good if you know if you 349 00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:56,300 had that kind of a tool if you're going 350 00:18:01,000 --> 00:17:58,250 to be building this project capture app 351 00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:01,010 that Rob Freeman bill you could be 352 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:02,960 adapting it to this thing called vault 353 00:18:07,570 --> 00:18:05,090 that they're doing but anyway the point 354 00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:07,580 I'm trying to get at is the theodolite 355 00:18:12,250 --> 00:18:10,400 you take an image and you're able to see 356 00:18:14,620 --> 00:18:12,260 the angular size and you can determine 357 00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:14,630 the altitude you could get the bearings 358 00:18:19,950 --> 00:18:17,840 from it you can also achieve es location 359 00:18:22,660 --> 00:18:19,960 you can get the time of day you can use 360 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:22,670 trigonometry to readily determine the 361 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:24,770 altitude of the object it gives you just 362 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:28,730 so much more than a photograph will will 363 00:18:33,310 --> 00:18:32,330 give you and a lot of people are missing 364 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:33,320 the boat though they'll take a 365 00:18:38,260 --> 00:18:35,810 photograph on their phone and they may 366 00:18:39,730 --> 00:18:38,270 not even have GPS on and so it's 367 00:18:43,090 --> 00:18:39,740 difficult because we're looking at the 368 00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:43,100 exif data to be able to determine what 369 00:18:48,190 --> 00:18:45,350 we can about that the settings of the 370 00:18:51,550 --> 00:18:48,200 camera and everything else and so a lot 371 00:18:53,140 --> 00:18:51,560 of that theodolite is solved the other 372 00:18:55,690 --> 00:18:53,150 thing that I mentioned was Tesla meter 373 00:18:59,560 --> 00:18:55,700 11 it's a nice little app in the sense 374 00:19:01,000 --> 00:18:59,570 that it gives you micro Tesla and 375 00:19:03,580 --> 00:19:01,010 milligauss 376 00:19:06,460 --> 00:19:03,590 kinds of readings of background 377 00:19:08,740 --> 00:19:06,470 radiation so if you think about some of 378 00:19:10,930 --> 00:19:08,750 the things that the other systems like 379 00:19:14,740 --> 00:19:10,940 made are and some of the other ones that 380 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:14,750 are being touted for as UFO tools your 381 00:19:20,650 --> 00:19:16,970 phone is able to actually do that in 382 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:20,660 terms of giving background you know 383 00:19:25,870 --> 00:19:23,930 magnetic kinds of indications the other 384 00:19:31,390 --> 00:19:25,880 thing that that I have always pointed 385 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:31,400 out was that it's good that we have true 386 00:19:35,710 --> 00:19:33,650 temperature settings and some other 387 00:19:37,540 --> 00:19:35,720 kinds of things and Geiger counters I 388 00:19:39,310 --> 00:19:37,550 don't know if you're aware of it but for 389 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:39,320 the iPhone and probably for the other 390 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:42,530 devices as well you can go out and get 391 00:19:48,940 --> 00:19:45,170 little tools that you can add and attach 392 00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:48,950 to your phone through the 3.5 microphone 393 00:19:55,870 --> 00:19:52,910 jack or into the lightning spot there 394 00:19:57,460 --> 00:19:55,880 and you're able to now get accurate 395 00:20:00,190 --> 00:19:57,470 temperature readings at your given 396 00:20:02,170 --> 00:20:00,200 location it's also a Geiger counter if 397 00:20:06,180 --> 00:20:02,180 you there's a little Geiger counter you 398 00:20:08,380 --> 00:20:06,190 can buy to attach to it there's also I 399 00:20:10,210 --> 00:20:08,390 you know I use it to be able to what I'm 400 00:20:12,370 --> 00:20:10,220 investigating the Cloverdale lights for 401 00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:12,380 example to get again precision in terms 402 00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:15,350 of the time the temperature the humidity 403 00:20:20,590 --> 00:20:17,360 that's out there because it might be a 404 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:20,600 factor of humidity and more of that kind 405 00:20:25,150 --> 00:20:23,450 of data and you can and capture that as 406 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:25,160 well 407 00:20:29,620 --> 00:20:27,890 it's also important you know for you to 408 00:20:32,050 --> 00:20:29,630 understand and let me give you an 409 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:32,060 illustration of what I'm talking about 410 00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:33,890 I had a witness that was calling me and 411 00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:36,860 saying that I'm looking at a particular 412 00:20:42,850 --> 00:20:39,470 light in the sky that I can't really 413 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:42,860 figure out and I don't know what it is 414 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:45,290 it seems to be and I and I called him up 415 00:20:50,350 --> 00:20:48,410 and I said okay well give me give me an 416 00:20:53,650 --> 00:20:50,360 address where you're at and so I went 417 00:20:56,260 --> 00:20:53,660 over to use my phone or I can't know I 418 00:20:58,900 --> 00:20:56,270 used the computer actually and I would 419 00:21:02,200 --> 00:20:58,910 got onto Google Earth and I was able to 420 00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:02,210 now zoom in on their location I'm seeing 421 00:21:06,340 --> 00:21:04,400 their complete house and the arrangement 422 00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:06,350 of that and they're telling me that 423 00:21:11,530 --> 00:21:09,200 they're in their backyard I now get on 424 00:21:13,660 --> 00:21:11,540 the phone and I am able to go over and 425 00:21:15,820 --> 00:21:13,670 very quickly while they're taught while 426 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:15,830 I'm still talking with them I'm able to 427 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:18,290 go over and get on flight radar and be 428 00:21:24,130 --> 00:21:20,450 able to see the aircraft directly above 429 00:21:27,850 --> 00:21:24,140 them and they say do you see this like 430 00:21:30,010 --> 00:21:27,860 heading eastbound definitely in the 431 00:21:32,650 --> 00:21:30,020 direction of the object and they said 432 00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:32,660 well I do see aircraft and so I'm able 433 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:35,120 to track the aircraft that are in the 434 00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:38,330 air at the same time I have another app 435 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:40,430 where I'm able to go in and very quickly 436 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:45,770 go and now look at the satellites that 437 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:49,250 are directly overhead and I can put that 438 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:53,330 into a geo Sat watch app and I'm able to 439 00:21:56,380 --> 00:21:54,970 look at satellites that are moving 440 00:21:57,850 --> 00:21:56,390 overhead and 441 00:22:01,780 --> 00:21:57,860 it's surprising to see that there's like 442 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:01,790 maybe you know probably about fifty to a 443 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:04,010 hundred of these things that are hanging 444 00:22:09,850 --> 00:22:06,710 over uh over your head at any one time 445 00:22:12,490 --> 00:22:09,860 and so I guess what I'm trying to get at 446 00:22:14,830 --> 00:22:12,500 is you're very quickly able to do things 447 00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:14,840 like investigations by just using your 448 00:22:20,110 --> 00:22:16,700 phone and using some of the apps that I 449 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:20,120 mentioned and so I'm wondering you know 450 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:22,010 to get encouraged you know UFO 451 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:24,290 investigators at the same time others to 452 00:22:28,990 --> 00:22:26,210 be able to go into that there's there 453 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:29,000 are things like police radio kinds of 454 00:22:34,090 --> 00:22:30,770 monitoring apps you can get you know 455 00:22:36,010 --> 00:22:34,100 that are on your phone there's also air 456 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:36,020 traffic control you can be listening to 457 00:22:42,370 --> 00:22:39,650 the local air traffic control people and 458 00:22:44,860 --> 00:22:42,380 and get a lot of that information so 459 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:44,870 where we could be leveraging our phones 460 00:22:50,170 --> 00:22:46,610 a bit more than we are 461 00:22:53,230 --> 00:22:50,180 to at least be able to get more data to 462 00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:53,240 be able to help us out in our UFO 463 00:22:58,450 --> 00:22:56,240 investigations realizing that of course 464 00:23:03,460 --> 00:22:58,460 there are tremendously a lot of other 465 00:23:05,710 --> 00:23:03,470 tools out there that are way more costly 466 00:23:08,140 --> 00:23:05,720 but the general public doesn't have 467 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:08,150 those the the one thing that we were 468 00:23:12,220 --> 00:23:10,730 looking at at one point doing in MUFON 469 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:12,230 at the same time we were talking about 470 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:14,570 this and other things were to be able to 471 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:17,930 get apps that will alert you to now know 472 00:23:21,730 --> 00:23:19,970 that if you're interested sign up and 473 00:23:24,370 --> 00:23:21,740 now you'll get alerted if there's an 474 00:23:26,590 --> 00:23:24,380 object that's being cited in your area 475 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:26,600 and then we encourage you then to go 476 00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:29,090 outside and now you can take and have 477 00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:31,360 images taken from different positions 478 00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:35,120 which give you triangulation and you can 479 00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:38,240 not get the exact precise altitude and 480 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:41,440 the position of whatever that object is 481 00:23:48,580 --> 00:23:46,490 so those are some of the the many tools 482 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:48,590 that are out there on our phone in fact 483 00:23:52,510 --> 00:23:50,570 I'll be talking about these at the SU 484 00:23:57,490 --> 00:23:52,520 conference we've got to have and next 485 00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:57,500 June but again there's actually kinds of 486 00:24:02,110 --> 00:24:00,080 tools on our phone including by the way 487 00:24:03,930 --> 00:24:02,120 I'll point out to you also thermal 488 00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:03,940 imaging kinds of things you can get a 489 00:24:10,060 --> 00:24:07,190 nice eke kind of adapter you can put in 490 00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:10,070 there and now start to look at that 491 00:24:15,310 --> 00:24:13,310 in that context oh okay go ahead I 492 00:24:17,530 --> 00:24:15,320 wanted to go ahead and break in I've 493 00:24:20,260 --> 00:24:17,540 been sharing my screen for the last five 494 00:24:22,150 --> 00:24:20,270 minutes with our panel to show them this 495 00:24:25,270 --> 00:24:22,160 wonderful document you sent me which is 496 00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:25,280 aids to UFO investigations and that was 497 00:24:31,450 --> 00:24:28,910 compiled in January 2017 it's a version 498 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:31,460 one that I have and it says this 499 00:24:35,410 --> 00:24:33,170 document is an attempt to compile the 500 00:24:38,980 --> 00:24:35,420 list of many resources available to 501 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:38,990 support UFO investigations aids like 502 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:41,450 these continue to become available so 503 00:24:45,490 --> 00:24:43,250 this document is a living document and 504 00:24:48,340 --> 00:24:45,500 will be need to be kept up to date and 505 00:24:49,540 --> 00:24:48,350 if you become aware of other tools and 506 00:24:52,510 --> 00:24:49,550 aids that should be included he's 507 00:24:55,150 --> 00:24:52,520 Richards asking folks add to it now it 508 00:24:58,930 --> 00:24:55,160 starts off with saying aircraft the name 509 00:25:01,270 --> 00:24:58,940 of it the type the OS I assume that's 510 00:25:03,790 --> 00:25:01,280 just operating system right and the 511 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:03,800 value and the link can you just give us 512 00:25:07,540 --> 00:25:05,810 a feel for what this document is about 513 00:25:10,690 --> 00:25:07,550 that we're staring at the panel's 514 00:25:16,330 --> 00:25:10,700 looking at well it's about the tools I 515 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:16,340 just discussed I mean so it gives you 516 00:25:21,790 --> 00:25:19,250 the tool and then it gives you the type 517 00:25:23,740 --> 00:25:21,800 of operating system as well as you know 518 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:23,750 the fact that I clumped all the aircraft 519 00:25:28,270 --> 00:25:25,370 related stuff together 520 00:25:30,100 --> 00:25:28,280 I put another there's another tab that's 521 00:25:32,110 --> 00:25:30,110 out there on the document that talks 522 00:25:34,420 --> 00:25:32,120 about satellite kind of information 523 00:25:36,430 --> 00:25:34,430 another one talks about maybe astronomy 524 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:36,440 or something of that nature and so I 525 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:38,090 clumped the various tools and even 526 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:40,010 websites that you can go to to get 527 00:25:44,860 --> 00:25:42,290 information under each of those headers 528 00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:44,870 and then you have the link to where you 529 00:25:50,170 --> 00:25:46,790 can go to learn more about the object so 530 00:25:51,850 --> 00:25:50,180 or about the tool so that's pretty much 531 00:25:56,410 --> 00:25:51,860 what I put together and I had provided 532 00:25:58,350 --> 00:25:56,420 the the the field investigators that I 533 00:26:01,960 --> 00:25:58,360 was working with when I was in move on 534 00:26:03,460 --> 00:26:01,970 ok ok and then I wanted to go ahead and 535 00:26:04,990 --> 00:26:03,470 thank you very much for that synopsis 536 00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:05,000 rich it was wonderful we really 537 00:26:09,010 --> 00:26:06,080 appreciate it 538 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:09,020 I see also that we have another guest on 539 00:26:14,050 --> 00:26:10,490 our show that I had wanted to introduce 540 00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:14,060 he's joined us now his name is Dean 541 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:16,520 Ashley and Dean is married with two 542 00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:18,290 children born and raised in st. Louis 543 00:26:22,990 --> 00:26:20,240 graduated college with a BA in English 544 00:26:23,650 --> 00:26:23,000 joined the Navy in 1996 became an 545 00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:23,660 aviation 546 00:26:28,270 --> 00:26:26,390 electronics technician and served for a 547 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:28,280 little over four years he gained the 548 00:26:35,130 --> 00:26:31,970 rank of a five but decided let's see 549 00:26:37,390 --> 00:26:35,140 what we have here sorry about that 550 00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:37,400 decided that the civilian world was 551 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:39,200 better suited for him eventually he 552 00:26:46,260 --> 00:26:40,970 found a job as a deeper level flirt 553 00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:46,270 technician and he has been involved in 554 00:26:51,250 --> 00:26:48,710 let's see in the same position ever 555 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:51,260 since he's worked as on a variety of 556 00:26:55,210 --> 00:26:53,330 Flers both old and new analog and 557 00:26:56,710 --> 00:26:55,220 digital he has seen more things in the 558 00:26:58,330 --> 00:26:56,720 sky with fleurs over the years with 559 00:27:00,610 --> 00:26:58,340 different systems that make him believe 560 00:27:03,370 --> 00:27:00,620 that he's somewhat of an expert in the 561 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:03,380 field he feels he's not alone and that 562 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:05,930 there's others in a Shh okay so that's 563 00:27:10,510 --> 00:27:09,170 it basically wanted to ask Dean if he 564 00:27:14,530 --> 00:27:10,520 would mind sharing a little bit of his 565 00:27:15,940 --> 00:27:14,540 experiences regarding possible detection 566 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:15,950 of you APs 567 00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:18,410 with the multi-million dollar equipment 568 00:27:23,050 --> 00:27:21,110 he has available to him he does have to 569 00:27:25,870 --> 00:27:23,060 be ambiguous about what that equipment 570 00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:25,880 is but if you could still share some 571 00:27:29,950 --> 00:27:28,190 anecdotal experiences and maybe a bit a 572 00:27:32,380 --> 00:27:29,960 little bit of your experience your 573 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:32,390 expertise regarding that equipment would 574 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:37,570 be very helpful thank you 575 00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:43,210 okay a brief background is I work for 576 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:47,120 government agency as a contractor and I 577 00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:49,130 use like you said I utilize a lot of 578 00:27:56,740 --> 00:27:54,320 these infrared clear systems I'm good 579 00:28:00,010 --> 00:27:56,750 close to NES Jack's within a few miles 580 00:28:04,390 --> 00:28:00,020 so I always see planes flying around I 581 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:04,400 see balloons seabirds other objects that 582 00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,930 you normally see in the sky so I gotten 583 00:28:10,210 --> 00:28:07,840 quite used to them so when something 584 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:10,220 stands out you know I see something out 585 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:13,130 of the ordinary and I first try to 586 00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,250 figure out what it is and I'm usually 587 00:28:20,970 --> 00:28:18,320 can most the time but there's been once 588 00:28:23,740 --> 00:28:20,980 or twice where I have not been able to 589 00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:23,750 decide what what this thing is in the 590 00:28:31,630 --> 00:28:27,520 air and it's usually when they're just 591 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:31,640 just motionless in the sky I don't 592 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:34,130 understand it because you know I've seen 593 00:28:37,690 --> 00:28:36,170 the moon I've seen planets I've seen 594 00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:37,700 that kind of thing and 595 00:28:41,049 --> 00:28:39,440 there's a phone app I think it's called 596 00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:41,059 Sky View or something like that but you 597 00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:44,480 can see where planets are relative to 598 00:28:49,210 --> 00:28:47,360 where you move your iPhone around so we 599 00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:49,220 use that to help us with that kind of 600 00:28:53,169 --> 00:28:50,720 stuff but um I've seen these stationary 601 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:53,179 orbs in the sky that I just can't 602 00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:55,250 explain so that's kind of where we are 603 00:28:58,180 --> 00:28:55,910 right now 604 00:29:00,610 --> 00:28:58,190 you got a lengthy video of one of those 605 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:00,620 posted up over at your channel I believe 606 00:29:04,660 --> 00:29:03,650 on YouTube and yeah yeah tell us a 607 00:29:07,180 --> 00:29:04,670 little bit about that 608 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:07,190 okay sure um that happened on Halloween 609 00:29:13,030 --> 00:29:11,690 so it was about I don't know maybe nine 610 00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,040 o'clock in the morning somewhere in 611 00:29:16,330 --> 00:29:15,440 there and a co-worker came out to me and 612 00:29:18,610 --> 00:29:16,340 said hey you want to check this thing 613 00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:18,620 out in the back I think it's a satellite 614 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:20,960 so I said okay so we went looked and I 615 00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:23,330 recorded this thing for 45 minutes and 616 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:25,190 it was like like I said earlier 617 00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:27,530 relatively motionless and I didn't it 618 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:29,630 kind of moved with the Earth's rotation 619 00:29:32,740 --> 00:29:31,130 but it didn't seem to move at all it 620 00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:32,750 just seemed to move because the earth 621 00:29:36,730 --> 00:29:35,270 moves and you know things you know I 622 00:29:38,380 --> 00:29:36,740 don't know it just seemed stationary so 623 00:29:41,710 --> 00:29:38,390 I was trying to figure out it was a 624 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:41,720 satellite but I could see light glinting 625 00:29:45,180 --> 00:29:43,130 off of it you know it's already morning 626 00:29:48,610 --> 00:29:45,190 time so I thought that that would be 627 00:29:51,549 --> 00:29:48,620 obscured or I'm not sure it just seemed 628 00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:51,559 way too big to be a satellite and I 629 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:52,760 could see it in the infrared the 630 00:29:57,850 --> 00:29:55,250 shortwave infrared and the daylight 631 00:29:59,950 --> 00:29:57,860 cameras and now that time of day I think 632 00:30:02,530 --> 00:29:59,960 the immediate things that pops into my 633 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:02,540 mind is was it possibly Venus so were 634 00:30:06,250 --> 00:30:04,010 you able to rule out Venus as a 635 00:30:07,450 --> 00:30:06,260 possibility yeah that's the first thing 636 00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:07,460 I did because it did look a lot like 637 00:30:12,460 --> 00:30:10,640 Venus we were looking to the west and at 638 00:30:17,860 --> 00:30:12,470 that particular time Venus was to the 639 00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:17,870 east so it was behind us okay thank you 640 00:30:22,150 --> 00:30:19,520 very much Dean and we will be getting 641 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:22,160 back to rich and Dean later including 642 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:25,250 Michael but I wanted to also ask Shane 643 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:28,250 and Earl a few questions I'll start off 644 00:30:33,010 --> 00:30:30,530 with Earl Earl you've been involved in 645 00:30:36,100 --> 00:30:33,020 the investigations of possible UFO 646 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:36,110 activity for many years and I know 647 00:30:42,780 --> 00:30:38,410 you've done quite a few investigations 648 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:42,790 do you feel you have come across real 649 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:45,410 UFO activity so to speak I'm sure you 650 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:49,130 can expound upon that oh and also could 651 00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:50,570 you please tell us what kinds of 652 00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:51,200 equipment 653 00:30:56,980 --> 00:30:54,799 you fill would be appropriate to using 654 00:31:01,299 --> 00:30:56,990 to try and procure possible you ap 655 00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:01,309 activity sure well you know as rich 656 00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:03,679 Hoffman was mentioning earlier the 657 00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:06,559 theodolite APIs is essential if you're 658 00:31:10,930 --> 00:31:09,049 doing you know I if I go and I do a 659 00:31:13,779 --> 00:31:10,940 field investigation and it's after the 660 00:31:18,789 --> 00:31:13,789 fact I'll still like just recently I had 661 00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:18,799 a family that saw fleet of UFOs and you 662 00:31:25,419 --> 00:31:21,200 know the the the old image specialist 663 00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:25,429 from JPL Marion Rudnick also saw a fleet 664 00:31:30,909 --> 00:31:28,880 of UFOs in the same general area so I 665 00:31:33,070 --> 00:31:30,919 took it very seriously especially 666 00:31:36,009 --> 00:31:33,080 because the the mother had had an 667 00:31:37,810 --> 00:31:36,019 aerospace background and her father had 668 00:31:40,210 --> 00:31:37,820 worked at Lockheed skunkworks 669 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:40,220 of all places of course you know 670 00:31:45,789 --> 00:31:44,210 synchronicity being what it is field and 671 00:31:47,289 --> 00:31:45,799 some of the strangeness that we come 672 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:47,299 across you know things seem to be 673 00:31:51,970 --> 00:31:49,610 connected at times and you have to kind 674 00:31:54,009 --> 00:31:51,980 of follow that but you know I as usual 675 00:31:56,289 --> 00:31:54,019 you know I went out to their backyard 676 00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:56,299 where they had this sighting their 677 00:32:02,740 --> 00:31:59,360 sighting lasted about 20 seconds 25 678 00:32:05,950 --> 00:32:02,750 seconds where there was a cloud bank 679 00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:05,960 almost like a theater of observation 680 00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:08,529 where there is a cloud bank towards the 681 00:32:16,409 --> 00:32:12,799 towards the the west and a cloud bank to 682 00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:16,419 the east and they saw this group of of 683 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:20,240 Coppola discs flying across from Keith 684 00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:22,330 they came out of one side of the clouds 685 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:25,519 it was in the early evenings so they 686 00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:28,850 actually saw them light up the clouds as 687 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:31,760 they emerged they went across the sky 688 00:32:37,659 --> 00:32:34,010 and they disappeared him to the next 689 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:37,669 cloud bank which they also lit up both 690 00:32:42,129 --> 00:32:40,490 were were plane spotters are well aware 691 00:32:44,159 --> 00:32:42,139 of you know they live near the Van Nuys 692 00:32:46,269 --> 00:32:44,169 Airport there they're used to seeing 693 00:32:48,009 --> 00:32:46,279 experimental craft and this was 694 00:32:50,769 --> 00:32:48,019 something completely different you know 695 00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:50,779 and and the whole family saw this you 696 00:32:57,700 --> 00:32:54,080 know there was a young preteen preteen 697 00:33:01,419 --> 00:32:57,710 son who saw it the father the mother and 698 00:33:04,490 --> 00:33:01,429 and then the daughter who is in her late 699 00:33:07,940 --> 00:33:04,500 20s but I went out and I got the 700 00:33:11,330 --> 00:33:07,950 like photos of where they saw the you 701 00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:11,340 know where they saw the UFOs emerge from 702 00:33:17,330 --> 00:33:15,480 initially the I got the coordinates and 703 00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:17,340 everything of where they disappeared 704 00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:20,550 into and in the next cloud bank and that 705 00:33:25,790 --> 00:33:22,320 was it was really helpful you know it 706 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:25,800 gave me really the exact area the sky 707 00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:29,610 that these were in they were able to you 708 00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:31,980 know guess to me pretty accurately how 709 00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:35,760 close these were so I do use the 710 00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:38,340 theodolite app other things that I've 711 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:42,240 used there's an astrophysicist from from 712 00:33:48,290 --> 00:33:45,090 France his name is John Pierre petit and 713 00:33:51,230 --> 00:33:48,300 we had him speak to our MUFON Los 714 00:33:54,190 --> 00:33:51,240 Angeles group about a year ago a little 715 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:54,200 over a year ago and he has a little 716 00:33:59,660 --> 00:33:57,210 gizmo that you can attach physically to 717 00:34:03,580 --> 00:33:59,670 your iPhone camera it's just very small 718 00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:03,590 it's maybe like maybe a couple of 719 00:34:09,110 --> 00:34:07,200 millimeters across and it just fits 720 00:34:11,899 --> 00:34:09,120 right over the lens and it's got a 721 00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:11,909 little spectral it works as it as a 722 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:15,540 little miniature spectroscope and so you 723 00:34:19,460 --> 00:34:17,490 could actually flip the little lens in 724 00:34:21,169 --> 00:34:19,470 and out so that it's not there all the 725 00:34:22,940 --> 00:34:21,179 time so if you're taking selfies or 726 00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:22,950 something you're not gonna show up in 727 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:24,960 rainbow you right because that's what it 728 00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:26,610 would do you know if you dislike a photo 729 00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:28,950 with it but if you point that at any 730 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:30,870 object of light it will give you the 731 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:34,050 spectrum you'll get a color for for 732 00:34:41,090 --> 00:34:38,370 various you know spectra of an object so 733 00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:41,100 you can tell a planet from a jet 734 00:34:47,060 --> 00:34:44,730 contrail from from a UFO and and it's 735 00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:47,070 very helpful and he wrote a paper about 736 00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:50,399 this it's called what information can be 737 00:34:58,730 --> 00:34:53,040 obtained from a UFO observation and you 738 00:34:59,360 --> 00:34:58,740 can find that at JP - petite PE TI t dot 739 00:35:01,910 --> 00:34:59,370 org 740 00:35:04,130 --> 00:35:01,920 and he's got a few papers up there but 741 00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:04,140 that one will pop right up or you can 742 00:35:14,030 --> 00:35:07,380 just Google you know iPhone device for 743 00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:14,040 capturing spectra of UFOs and then JP 744 00:35:19,150 --> 00:35:17,160 petit and that will pop up its JP - 745 00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:19,160 petite or 746 00:35:25,850 --> 00:35:21,900 another app that I've used that I found 747 00:35:28,370 --> 00:35:25,860 very very helpful and in and I've only 748 00:35:30,020 --> 00:35:28,380 really had one or two situations where 749 00:35:33,380 --> 00:35:30,030 I've been able to use it but it was very 750 00:35:37,310 --> 00:35:33,390 helpful is I have a hunter's tracking 751 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:37,320 app it's called JPS tracks and again you 752 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:40,770 can get this over at the Apple you know 753 00:35:47,780 --> 00:35:44,010 App Store I think it cost me five 754 00:35:52,370 --> 00:35:47,790 dollars max and what it'll do is is that 755 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:52,380 you if you I had I had one case in 756 00:35:56,690 --> 00:35:53,970 particular it was in Azusa California 757 00:36:00,410 --> 00:35:56,700 where two women took chase after you 758 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:00,420 after two UFOs and I was able to get the 759 00:36:03,950 --> 00:36:02,250 flight pattern exact because you were 760 00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:03,960 chasing and they were chasing these in 761 00:36:11,090 --> 00:36:07,110 their car was actually chosen as one of 762 00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:11,100 MUFON 's best cases of 2017 so it was a 763 00:36:16,330 --> 00:36:14,310 couple years ago but I used the hunters 764 00:36:18,980 --> 00:36:16,340 app and I was to get the exact 765 00:36:23,330 --> 00:36:18,990 coordinates of where they went where 766 00:36:26,060 --> 00:36:23,340 they turn to follow these objects and so 767 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:26,070 that's another thing that you can use if 768 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:29,010 somebody has an entity sighting and you 769 00:36:36,530 --> 00:36:33,530 know they were actually you know in the 770 00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,540 Manoa in their room or something like 771 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:38,400 that you know you could use it for that 772 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:40,890 and so sometimes I sort of miss 773 00:36:47,540 --> 00:36:43,650 appropriate apps that are for one thing 774 00:36:49,850 --> 00:36:47,550 and use them for for apology and you 775 00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:49,860 know it just you just have to kind of 776 00:36:54,820 --> 00:36:52,470 keep an open mind and and and think 777 00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:54,830 about stuff and and how you can use 778 00:37:00,890 --> 00:36:58,560 something like a hunter's app for you 779 00:37:03,350 --> 00:37:00,900 know our purposes I'm gonna go to Chanel 780 00:37:05,630 --> 00:37:03,360 Earle but I will be asking you to engage 781 00:37:07,850 --> 00:37:05,640 with us on discussion along with our 782 00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:07,860 entire panel about the difference 783 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:11,310 between drones and non drones I'm just 784 00:37:15,350 --> 00:37:13,530 gonna use put it like that because I 785 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:15,360 know you've had quite a few experiences 786 00:37:23,690 --> 00:37:18,090 with folks who feel like they had seen a 787 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:23,700 real UFO so to speak meaning a possible 788 00:37:28,070 --> 00:37:26,250 et related incident one really it was a 789 00:37:29,860 --> 00:37:28,080 drone so we'll get back to you on that 790 00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:29,870 but meanwhile Shayna I was gonna ask you 791 00:37:36,140 --> 00:37:32,640 you're an investigator for 792 00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:36,150 the MUFON Phoenix chapter and wanted to 793 00:37:41,930 --> 00:37:38,609 know what experiences you can you fill 794 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:41,940 our key regarding sharing uh possible 795 00:37:48,819 --> 00:37:45,210 equipment tools apps or skill sets to 796 00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:48,829 discern a possible UFO activity 797 00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:52,529 yeah sure glad to in fact we just 798 00:37:58,309 --> 00:37:55,710 completed the second annual MUFON 799 00:38:00,620 --> 00:37:58,319 investigators boot camp here in Arizona 800 00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:00,630 and I had a couple presentations 801 00:38:06,140 --> 00:38:02,609 regarding investigation and one of them 802 00:38:07,940 --> 00:38:06,150 was about tools and resources however 803 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:07,950 it's a slightly different angle it's 804 00:38:13,460 --> 00:38:10,890 typically what we apply after the fact 805 00:38:17,109 --> 00:38:13,470 right to investigate a case so it's not 806 00:38:19,970 --> 00:38:17,119 preemptive ordering during an actual mm 807 00:38:22,940 --> 00:38:19,980 sighting but and I'm fully supportive 808 00:38:24,259 --> 00:38:22,950 and agree with the tools that we've 809 00:38:26,779 --> 00:38:24,269 already been talking about for that 810 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:26,789 certainly it's the Oh light that that's 811 00:38:31,309 --> 00:38:28,410 huge that's that's really one of the 812 00:38:34,009 --> 00:38:31,319 main things that you can use I also have 813 00:38:36,349 --> 00:38:34,019 like a Plains live app against very 814 00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:36,359 similar aviation you can tell what that 815 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:38,400 plane is above you that's flight number 816 00:38:42,980 --> 00:38:40,170 you can give you a picture of the plane 817 00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:42,990 it where we're originated where it's 818 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:45,359 going it's altitude its speed its 819 00:38:48,499 --> 00:38:45,930 heading 820 00:38:50,900 --> 00:38:48,509 I mean it's absolutely amazing so but 821 00:38:53,809 --> 00:38:50,910 something like that is is a tool to rule 822 00:38:56,690 --> 00:38:53,819 out something you know as opposed to 823 00:39:00,049 --> 00:38:56,700 verifying what something is and the true 824 00:39:04,549 --> 00:39:00,059 unknown but some of the tools and stuff 825 00:39:06,589 --> 00:39:04,559 that you know I you know utilize really 826 00:39:10,309 --> 00:39:06,599 in the investigative process is much 827 00:39:12,589 --> 00:39:10,319 like Rich's document that you showed us 828 00:39:14,660 --> 00:39:12,599 earlier and you know it's the type of 829 00:39:16,519 --> 00:39:14,670 the tool the tool name them where you 830 00:39:18,499 --> 00:39:16,529 can find out but you know some of the 831 00:39:21,470 --> 00:39:18,509 categories of tools we use or you know 832 00:39:24,170 --> 00:39:21,480 we check other UFO reporting agencies 833 00:39:26,569 --> 00:39:24,180 such as new for and the idea behind that 834 00:39:28,249 --> 00:39:26,579 is if you can correlate a report with 835 00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,259 another report especially with someone 836 00:39:32,299 --> 00:39:30,240 who's in a different location and 837 00:39:34,849 --> 00:39:32,309 unknown to the person who's reporting it 838 00:39:36,730 --> 00:39:34,859 to you then you know that adds a lot of 839 00:39:39,849 --> 00:39:36,740 credibility and weight to the report 840 00:39:42,170 --> 00:39:39,859 plus hopefully can glean additional data 841 00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:42,180 you know we always check like local 842 00:39:45,230 --> 00:39:44,160 media and so all of the television 843 00:39:47,090 --> 00:39:45,240 stations and 844 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:47,100 newspapers and again looking for 845 00:39:51,980 --> 00:39:50,130 additional reports and different you 846 00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:51,990 know facts and then of course you know 847 00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:54,480 always trying to contact the military 848 00:39:58,520 --> 00:39:55,920 bases around and find out is there 849 00:40:00,830 --> 00:39:58,530 training activity going on that sort of 850 00:40:03,590 --> 00:40:00,840 thing and you know it's kind of a 50/50 851 00:40:09,620 --> 00:40:03,600 chance that you'll get a straight answer 852 00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:09,630 there some resources but you know it's 853 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:12,420 worth a shot right you try and turn over 854 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:14,490 every stone and the same with like local 855 00:40:18,530 --> 00:40:17,010 law enforcement and you know I have 856 00:40:20,810 --> 00:40:18,540 pretty good support there I've always 857 00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:20,820 always been able to get somebody to you 858 00:40:25,340 --> 00:40:23,310 know provide some information even if it 859 00:40:29,930 --> 00:40:25,350 is no we don't have anything but you 860 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:29,940 know it's believable so sure my god no 861 00:40:34,100 --> 00:40:32,130 no go ahead well I wanted to mention 862 00:40:36,170 --> 00:40:34,110 something that you have talked about and 863 00:40:37,609 --> 00:40:36,180 you've made a very you know you've 864 00:40:39,650 --> 00:40:37,619 emphasized this you've made a very good 865 00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:39,660 point about it and I think it's 866 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:41,220 something that our panel would agree 867 00:40:46,730 --> 00:40:44,130 with you on and that's EXIF data it's 868 00:40:49,250 --> 00:40:46,740 really important for folks to be able to 869 00:40:51,950 --> 00:40:49,260 have the exchangeable image file format 870 00:40:53,930 --> 00:40:51,960 in order to be able to do kind of I 871 00:40:58,250 --> 00:40:53,940 guess forensic like investigation or 872 00:41:00,290 --> 00:40:58,260 forensic investigation on image related 873 00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:00,300 material that is handed over to move on 874 00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:02,609 to investigate what are your thoughts on 875 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:05,040 exif and photography regarding this 876 00:41:10,310 --> 00:41:08,970 absolutely yeah very critical in fact we 877 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:10,320 went over that and that training in the 878 00:41:14,030 --> 00:41:12,210 boot camp as well and really I've got 879 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:14,040 three references that might be good for 880 00:41:21,170 --> 00:41:16,050 folks to have that you can make use of 881 00:41:23,330 --> 00:41:21,180 first of all on WWF datacom and if you 882 00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:23,340 you can use that on your computer you 883 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:26,760 just upload a an image into that and it 884 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:29,130 performs that analysis and you can see 885 00:41:33,020 --> 00:41:30,810 all the exif data which is super 886 00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:33,030 valuable and then there's also another 887 00:41:39,859 --> 00:41:36,510 one called photo forensics comm and 888 00:41:43,070 --> 00:41:39,869 that's photo with an F F OTO forensics 889 00:41:45,470 --> 00:41:43,080 and that takes a look at it from a 890 00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:45,480 different perspective it it really is an 891 00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:47,250 indicator whether an image has been 892 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:48,960 tampered with or not helps you identify 893 00:41:55,940 --> 00:41:52,410 that and then of course videos also have 894 00:41:58,260 --> 00:41:55,950 the equivalent of exif data but yeah you 895 00:41:59,820 --> 00:41:58,270 need a special viewer for that 896 00:42:05,940 --> 00:41:59,830 so I can give you that reference here 897 00:42:08,250 --> 00:42:05,950 it's WWE dia area net and again you can 898 00:42:10,980 --> 00:42:08,260 break down a video in the same way as 899 00:42:13,350 --> 00:42:10,990 you can a photo with the background exif 900 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:13,360 data which again is very helpful you 901 00:42:18,210 --> 00:42:15,490 know you're able to you know confirm 902 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:18,220 what and where and when with that that 903 00:42:22,140 --> 00:42:20,050 as well as whether it's been tampered 904 00:42:22,830 --> 00:42:22,150 with or altered in any way so it's very 905 00:42:24,930 --> 00:42:22,840 useful 906 00:42:26,670 --> 00:42:24,940 thank you very very much for sharing 907 00:42:29,730 --> 00:42:26,680 that information I wanted to go ahead 908 00:42:31,470 --> 00:42:29,740 and introduce a gentleman by the name of 909 00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:31,480 Steve Hudgens who's the international 910 00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:33,760 director of Investigations for MUFON 911 00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:36,550 he's a MUFON member since 1991 welcome 912 00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,110 Steve to our show thank you very much 913 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:40,480 for having joined us today hello it's 914 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:44,530 good to be here hey Steve Steve to catch 915 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:47,650 on a few things that we've been talking 916 00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:50,290 about and you and I actually had to talk 917 00:42:55,470 --> 00:42:52,960 about this recently and that was a 918 00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:55,480 theodolite stellarium geo stat watch 919 00:43:00,420 --> 00:42:58,000 flightradar24 the tesla meter 920 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:00,430 I seek thermal devices temperature and 921 00:43:04,350 --> 00:43:02,410 humidity devices and radiation detector 922 00:43:06,450 --> 00:43:04,360 devices I had read to you a list that 923 00:43:08,430 --> 00:43:06,460 rich Hoffman had put together you said 924 00:43:10,380 --> 00:43:08,440 you had actually used one or a few of 925 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:10,390 those apps do you mind telling us which 926 00:43:15,690 --> 00:43:13,450 app you used and why you felt was 927 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:15,700 instrumental as an aide of regarding a 928 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:20,050 UFO investigation well I use some of 929 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:21,370 those but not all of them but that 930 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:23,650 theodolite has has a lot of information 931 00:43:29,820 --> 00:43:26,170 on now suggest anyone and everyone grab 932 00:43:31,050 --> 00:43:29,830 that music you can just point that thing 933 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:31,060 to whatever you're looking at and take a 934 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:32,650 photograph and it gives you the height 935 00:43:36,810 --> 00:43:34,570 the measurements and gives everything 936 00:43:38,610 --> 00:43:36,820 you need to know and like I said it 937 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:38,620 takes a photograph you can save it send 938 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:43,650 it out or whatever the flat radar 24 is 939 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:46,690 it's great if you want to like you see 940 00:43:52,650 --> 00:43:49,690 I'll give an example I had a friend of 941 00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:52,660 mine in Ohio he was always telling me 942 00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:54,730 about these UFOs he sees all the time 943 00:44:00,540 --> 00:43:58,240 constantly and I was up there with him 944 00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:00,550 one night and he said there's one right 945 00:44:05,130 --> 00:44:03,550 now so I pulled up flight 24 and showed 946 00:44:07,020 --> 00:44:05,140 him what airplane he was looking at and 947 00:44:10,260 --> 00:44:07,030 it just blew his bubble he couldn't 948 00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:10,270 stand it and then probably a month later 949 00:44:14,190 --> 00:44:11,950 he called me back again 950 00:44:16,260 --> 00:44:14,200 I'm back home and he says I see another 951 00:44:18,150 --> 00:44:16,270 UFO so I said okay hold on a minute I 952 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:18,160 pulled up flight radar and went to where 953 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:21,010 he is and I told him I go cast an 954 00:44:23,550 --> 00:44:22,210 airplane he says how do you know it's 955 00:44:24,570 --> 00:44:23,560 airplane I said I gotta see it and I 956 00:44:26,580 --> 00:44:24,580 said just hold on a minute 957 00:44:28,590 --> 00:44:26,590 I said now it's turning and going north 958 00:44:36,890 --> 00:44:28,600 he said how'd you know that I see the 959 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:36,900 airplane it works really good for ya 960 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:39,130 he's been telling me all his life he was 961 00:44:42,570 --> 00:44:40,810 a navy buddy of mine he's been telling 962 00:44:45,780 --> 00:44:42,580 me all his life about his UFO 963 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:45,790 experiences and and it's disheartening 964 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:47,770 to him to find out it he's been looking 965 00:44:54,690 --> 00:44:52,090 at airplanes going to Columbus Ohio and 966 00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:54,700 landing you know just ruined his day and 967 00:44:59,610 --> 00:44:56,800 that's actually a good segue for me to 968 00:45:01,560 --> 00:44:59,620 ask Earl Grey he and I have talked at 969 00:45:05,610 --> 00:45:01,570 length about this topic I'm about to 970 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:05,620 bring up to the panel and that is the 971 00:45:11,340 --> 00:45:08,170 fact that Earl will come across folks 972 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:11,350 who will reach MUFON in the hopes of 973 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:14,410 having their UFO the UFO activity they 974 00:45:19,470 --> 00:45:16,690 feel they've captured on whatever by 975 00:45:22,050 --> 00:45:19,480 whatever means and they are so 976 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:22,060 emotionally invested and whatever it is 977 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:25,530 they're giving a MUFON to look over that 978 00:45:29,610 --> 00:45:28,090 like Earl for example has had to deal 979 00:45:31,860 --> 00:45:29,620 with people getting very upset with him 980 00:45:32,670 --> 00:45:31,870 when he's like but that's a drone that's 981 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:32,680 something else 982 00:45:38,250 --> 00:45:36,370 Earl can you try min on that sure well I 983 00:45:39,930 --> 00:45:38,260 mean we do provide that service to the 984 00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:39,940 public I mean we don't want people to 985 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:41,710 think that we're being invaded you know 986 00:45:48,030 --> 00:45:44,890 and I had one case in particular where 987 00:45:50,430 --> 00:45:48,040 this woman said well a UFO was hounding 988 00:45:52,770 --> 00:45:50,440 my daughter's high school graduation 989 00:45:54,780 --> 00:45:52,780 it's like oh you know she said yeah it 990 00:45:56,970 --> 00:45:54,790 was flying over the crowd it wasn't a 991 00:45:58,290 --> 00:45:56,980 large UFO and I was going well wait a 992 00:46:00,300 --> 00:45:58,300 minute wait a minute so it was flashing 993 00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:00,310 lights or something she said no just 994 00:46:07,940 --> 00:46:04,510 hovering very quietly silently and I and 995 00:46:10,370 --> 00:46:07,950 I said did they have like um aerial 996 00:46:13,470 --> 00:46:10,380 photography or video of your daughter's 997 00:46:15,930 --> 00:46:13,480 graduation by any chance and she said oh 998 00:46:18,180 --> 00:46:15,940 yeah yeah yeah it's it's it's up on 999 00:46:19,980 --> 00:46:18,190 YouTube in fact you know and and we 1000 00:46:22,050 --> 00:46:19,990 wound up of course deducting that she 1001 00:46:24,810 --> 00:46:22,060 was seeing the the drone that they were 1002 00:46:25,180 --> 00:46:24,820 doing the aerial video of the graduation 1003 00:46:28,420 --> 00:46:25,190 of 1004 00:46:31,150 --> 00:46:28,430 from and she felt silly but you know you 1005 00:46:33,819 --> 00:46:31,160 you try to that's one thing I try to do 1006 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:33,829 is is help the person to not feel silly 1007 00:46:40,109 --> 00:46:36,050 you know I had a scientist that was 1008 00:46:42,849 --> 00:46:40,119 living out Newbury Park that reported 1009 00:46:44,829 --> 00:46:42,859 repeated UFO sightings so they were 1010 00:46:48,359 --> 00:46:44,839 flashing lights and spinning around and 1011 00:46:53,290 --> 00:46:48,369 and again you know it was the proverbial 1012 00:46:56,980 --> 00:46:53,300 description of RC drone and you know 1013 00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:56,990 eventually he concluded as well that's 1014 00:47:00,640 --> 00:46:59,119 what he was seen so I'll sometimes tell 1015 00:47:04,450 --> 00:47:00,650 the why out of scientists that this 1016 00:47:08,109 --> 00:47:04,460 fooled as well and so don't feel bad and 1017 00:47:12,819 --> 00:47:08,119 and I'll remind people of the good dr. 1018 00:47:16,599 --> 00:47:12,829 Hynek sold assessment at 99 or 95 to 90 1019 00:47:18,670 --> 00:47:16,609 to 95 percent of UFO reports wind up 1020 00:47:20,829 --> 00:47:18,680 being prosaic objects so that's what we 1021 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:20,839 usually get you know of course it's at 1022 00:47:25,180 --> 00:47:22,970 five to ten percent that's interesting 1023 00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:25,190 that kind of blows our socks off you 1024 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:27,710 know an interesting story I heard about 1025 00:47:32,589 --> 00:47:30,050 hi Nick I don't know maybe you can vouch 1026 00:47:35,500 --> 00:47:32,599 for this maybe not that he was actually 1027 00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:35,510 on a plane and he saw something that was 1028 00:47:41,319 --> 00:47:38,240 ufo-related in them forgot about it and 1029 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:41,329 remembered it later he did he did see 1030 00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:43,010 something from an airplane that is true 1031 00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:46,310 hmm Paul and Paul actually mentioned 1032 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:49,520 that recently we were talking about it I 1033 00:47:54,250 --> 00:47:51,530 talked with Paul I he's kind of become a 1034 00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:54,260 friend of mine and and he's got a lot of 1035 00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:56,569 good anecdotes about his dad I'm hoping 1036 00:48:01,390 --> 00:47:58,720 he eventually writes that book he has a 1037 00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:01,400 wonderful PowerPoint presentation he 1038 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:05,089 gives yeah I think Oh Paul Hynek spoke 1039 00:48:10,329 --> 00:48:07,490 at MUFON this year at this MUFON 1040 00:48:14,980 --> 00:48:10,339 symposium I was going to ask our panel 1041 00:48:17,079 --> 00:48:14,990 can can people chime in on what the 1042 00:48:23,980 --> 00:48:17,089 difference is between a Chinese lantern 1043 00:48:27,370 --> 00:48:23,990 a drone a satellite anything like Venus 1044 00:48:29,980 --> 00:48:27,380 in the sky anything at all that can be 1045 00:48:32,140 --> 00:48:29,990 determined as just that how does a 1046 00:48:34,210 --> 00:48:32,150 person attain skillsets in order to be 1047 00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:34,220 able to discern the difference anybody 1048 00:48:38,510 --> 00:48:35,270 want to chime in on that 1049 00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:38,520 well satellites are going to be moving 1050 00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:42,240 Venus is going to be very far away the 1051 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:44,400 drone the Chinese lanterns you can 1052 00:48:48,830 --> 00:48:46,410 generally see them flickering yeah you 1053 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:48,840 can kind of tell there are a lot of 1054 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:53,130 videos of different sky lanterns have 1055 00:48:57,380 --> 00:48:54,930 been videoed all over the place and you 1056 00:48:58,820 --> 00:48:57,390 can kind of tell and I suppose with some 1057 00:49:00,560 --> 00:48:58,830 of these apps you could probably pick up 1058 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:00,570 a heat signature because there's flame 1059 00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:03,090 involved and getting them up in the air 1060 00:49:10,460 --> 00:49:07,200 so those should be pretty easy to to 1061 00:49:13,070 --> 00:49:10,470 kind of figure out what they are as the 1062 00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:13,080 app that Richard mentioned Stellarium 1063 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:16,020 you can tell where Venus is Jupiter is 1064 00:49:20,180 --> 00:49:18,570 another planet that I can get people's 1065 00:49:21,530 --> 00:49:20,190 attention and they think they might be 1066 00:49:25,370 --> 00:49:21,540 seeing as something pretty interesting 1067 00:49:28,250 --> 00:49:25,380 there so you know obviously Venus is a 1068 00:49:31,130 --> 00:49:28,260 few million miles away from us a 1069 00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:31,140 satellite there in movement you're gonna 1070 00:49:38,030 --> 00:49:36,480 see them you know usually maybe yeah you 1071 00:49:40,550 --> 00:49:38,040 know a couple hundred thousand feet 1072 00:49:42,859 --> 00:49:40,560 above the earth so they're pretty far 1073 00:49:45,650 --> 00:49:42,869 away drones and sky lanterns are going 1074 00:49:47,570 --> 00:49:45,660 to be a little bit closer that one drone 1075 00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:47,580 that I saw one evening that really got 1076 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:50,160 my attention was lit up with the LED 1077 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:51,570 lights and I think they're pretty 1078 00:49:56,060 --> 00:49:54,210 recognizable but obviously people don't 1079 00:49:58,670 --> 00:49:56,070 know what they don't know so some folks 1080 00:50:00,440 --> 00:49:58,680 might not be able to spot them but 1081 00:50:02,420 --> 00:50:00,450 they've got those LED lights that kind 1082 00:50:04,820 --> 00:50:02,430 of stand out and again with the other 1083 00:50:06,980 --> 00:50:04,830 lanterns the sky lanterns you've got 1084 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:06,990 that flickering flame inside the lantern 1085 00:50:11,630 --> 00:50:09,210 to keep it up in the air it's basically 1086 00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:11,640 sort of a miniature hot-air balloon 1087 00:50:17,020 --> 00:50:14,400 that's basically what they are and if 1088 00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:17,030 anybody wants to add to that go a 1089 00:50:23,660 --> 00:50:20,760 Chinese lantern has a very short period 1090 00:50:25,070 --> 00:50:23,670 of time that it'll stay lit it's got you 1091 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:25,080 know it has one of those old votive 1092 00:50:32,900 --> 00:50:29,130 candles in it and so so you know a 1093 00:50:34,910 --> 00:50:32,910 proverbial Chinese lantern Society it'll 1094 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:34,920 usually be that you know the color of a 1095 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:38,130 flame kind of a golden color it'll you 1096 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:40,650 know move along with the wind and that 1097 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:42,570 that's always a good thing too you know 1098 00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:45,330 you can go to Weather Underground comm 1099 00:50:50,570 --> 00:50:47,730 and get the direction that the wind was 1100 00:50:51,740 --> 00:50:50,580 going at a particular time any day 1101 00:50:54,590 --> 00:50:51,750 pretty much you can do 1102 00:50:57,350 --> 00:50:54,600 put it into the historic weather site 1103 00:51:00,170 --> 00:50:57,360 that's on there and you can find out the 1104 00:51:03,890 --> 00:51:00,180 speed and direction of the winds you 1105 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:03,900 know and that I use a very thin I may I 1106 00:51:09,050 --> 00:51:07,050 used that one to to close a hoax where a 1107 00:51:15,650 --> 00:51:09,060 guy had put together a kite that looked 1108 00:51:17,540 --> 00:51:15,660 like a tr-3b UFO and it was very funny 1109 00:51:19,460 --> 00:51:17,550 how he didn't edit this video very 1110 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:19,470 carefully and you watch this thing crash 1111 00:51:27,070 --> 00:51:21,090 into the ocean and I told them well I 1112 00:51:33,260 --> 00:51:29,800 there were no reports of crashing 1113 00:51:35,090 --> 00:51:33,270 triangular UFOs out there and it's 1114 00:51:37,940 --> 00:51:35,100 really funny you know I'm looking at the 1115 00:51:40,070 --> 00:51:37,950 the direction the wind was was blowing 1116 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:40,080 and and right it you know I can see the 1117 00:51:45,850 --> 00:51:43,050 video readout and exactly at the moment 1118 00:51:50,750 --> 00:51:45,860 where your UFO crashes into the ocean 1119 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:50,760 the the wind suddenly went to zero the 1120 00:51:56,090 --> 00:51:53,130 wind speeds so I was able to just use 1121 00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:56,100 that simple app to lots of clothes a 1122 00:52:02,660 --> 00:52:00,720 guys hoax yeah let me let me jump in 1123 00:52:09,230 --> 00:52:02,670 here go ahead I'm sorry finish up there 1124 00:52:11,090 --> 00:52:09,240 oh yeah this is rich I was just gonna 1125 00:52:15,050 --> 00:52:11,100 jump in on a couple things 1126 00:52:17,390 --> 00:52:15,060 I remember when I'm a pilot of drones so 1127 00:52:19,100 --> 00:52:17,400 I mean I I know about the lightning you 1128 00:52:21,020 --> 00:52:19,110 can get all kinds of lighting packages 1129 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:21,030 for like the the type of Thrones that 1130 00:52:26,540 --> 00:52:24,690 I've got and I had a one gentleman that 1131 00:52:28,700 --> 00:52:26,550 was actually working in my security 1132 00:52:31,790 --> 00:52:28,710 system who didn't know who I was at the 1133 00:52:38,990 --> 00:52:31,800 time and my relationship to the UFO 1134 00:52:42,140 --> 00:52:39,000 subject he was telling me oh and I built 1135 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:42,150 a frame that I could put around it to 1136 00:52:45,980 --> 00:52:44,130 make it look like a flying saucer and I 1137 00:52:52,190 --> 00:52:45,990 have lights that rotate around on the 1138 00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:52,200 outside of it UFO reports and stuff like 1139 00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:53,250 that oh really 1140 00:53:02,660 --> 00:53:00,720 you know I so I said troublemaker I'm 1141 00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:02,670 Dean Ashley I do want to jump in here 1142 00:53:09,950 --> 00:53:05,970 really fast because Dean acts 1143 00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:09,960 is involved in creating drones as a 1144 00:53:16,099 --> 00:53:13,200 hobby quadrocopters multi-rotor related 1145 00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:16,109 drones and he enjoys building them and 1146 00:53:20,089 --> 00:53:17,910 he enjoys flying them and he can make a 1147 00:53:22,580 --> 00:53:20,099 good argument regarding why the object 1148 00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:22,590 seen in the Fleur videos that he creates 1149 00:53:29,210 --> 00:53:26,480 the Fleur UFO videos could not be drones 1150 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:29,220 can you please give us input on that 1151 00:53:34,099 --> 00:53:30,090 topic 1152 00:53:38,109 --> 00:53:34,109 Dean sure I started with the drones back 1153 00:53:40,430 --> 00:53:38,119 about maybe four or five years ago and 1154 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:40,440 the wife didn't want me spending a whole 1155 00:53:45,620 --> 00:53:42,690 bunch of money on them so I built on 1156 00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:45,630 those I like bought parts online you 1157 00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:47,310 know thirty dollars here forty dollars 1158 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:49,530 there and it's slipped under her radar 1159 00:53:54,050 --> 00:53:51,290 so then I can put it all together 1160 00:53:57,349 --> 00:53:54,060 couldn't make a big one-time purchase so 1161 00:53:59,089 --> 00:53:57,359 then I started building them and like 1162 00:54:02,000 --> 00:53:59,099 rich I had made one that looked like a 1163 00:54:04,370 --> 00:54:02,010 UFO with the lights and everything and I 1164 00:54:07,339 --> 00:54:04,380 flew it at night this was before all the 1165 00:54:09,290 --> 00:54:07,349 regulations but my neighbor came home 1166 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:09,300 and he parked it he saw me landed in the 1167 00:54:15,140 --> 00:54:12,450 in the driveway is a day that you and I 1168 00:54:16,849 --> 00:54:15,150 said yeah that's me he was way down a 1169 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:16,859 couple miles away and he could see it in 1170 00:54:20,420 --> 00:54:18,570 the sky and he was convinced he saw a 1171 00:54:23,390 --> 00:54:20,430 UFO so it was kind of disappointing for 1172 00:54:26,089 --> 00:54:23,400 him too but yeah there's a certain I 1173 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:26,099 usually detect planes that kind of stuff 1174 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:28,290 by movement so the way that a drone 1175 00:54:34,099 --> 00:54:30,570 moves it once you start flying I mean 1176 00:54:36,980 --> 00:54:34,109 you get used to you know the that the 1177 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:36,990 way that they kind of kind of tilt 1178 00:54:42,380 --> 00:54:40,010 sideways and move in a diagonal way 1179 00:54:46,370 --> 00:54:42,390 fashion or the way they can zip up and 1180 00:54:47,810 --> 00:54:46,380 down but you get used to the movement 1181 00:54:52,820 --> 00:54:47,820 and you're trying to easy to identify 1182 00:54:55,550 --> 00:54:52,830 after a while okay yeah I was gonna ask 1183 00:54:58,700 --> 00:54:55,560 you I know you see a lot of satellites 1184 00:55:01,609 --> 00:54:58,710 out there with your UFO I team and you 1185 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:01,619 all have become experts in discerning 1186 00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:03,650 the difference between satellites drones 1187 00:55:09,890 --> 00:55:08,400 Chinese lantern and the like what kinds 1188 00:55:11,570 --> 00:55:09,900 of challenges are you faced with when 1189 00:55:16,220 --> 00:55:11,580 you go out in the field to try and 1190 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:16,230 capture UFO activity yeah thanks for the 1191 00:55:20,330 --> 00:55:19,290 question chant it's a it's always uh 1192 00:55:23,450 --> 00:55:20,340 you know one of those things that you 1193 00:55:26,270 --> 00:55:23,460 can learn over time with experience you 1194 00:55:29,390 --> 00:55:26,280 know just with your naked eye or your 1195 00:55:33,350 --> 00:55:29,400 equipment what you're looking at there's 1196 00:55:35,780 --> 00:55:33,360 nothing that will replace the idea of 1197 00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:35,790 time at a sky watch and doing it more 1198 00:55:41,570 --> 00:55:38,610 often that you can kind of you know pick 1199 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:41,580 up these little subtle differences but 1200 00:55:47,900 --> 00:55:44,850 I'll tell you what our our Dave Mason 1201 00:55:50,060 --> 00:55:47,910 you know photographer techie guy along 1202 00:55:52,820 --> 00:55:50,070 with Lee Strauss on our team have really 1203 00:55:55,850 --> 00:55:52,830 upped our game with the idea that we now 1204 00:55:59,060 --> 00:55:55,860 can take light sources from the night 1205 00:56:03,530 --> 00:55:59,070 sky and turn them into audio frequencies 1206 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:03,540 that can be data that we can look at on 1207 00:56:10,340 --> 00:56:06,930 oscilloscopes so our oscilloscope data 1208 00:56:14,300 --> 00:56:10,350 can be determined if this is going to be 1209 00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:14,310 a drone or a sky lantern or anything 1210 00:56:19,550 --> 00:56:16,170 like that because they'll come off with 1211 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:19,560 a certain frequency that is typical of 1212 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:22,650 those kinds of objects so when we see 1213 00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:26,970 something that is very unusual as a 1214 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:29,040 frequency signature then we'll know 1215 00:56:34,090 --> 00:56:31,410 we're probably looking at something we 1216 00:56:36,530 --> 00:56:34,100 need to get some more data on and 1217 00:56:39,260 --> 00:56:36,540 specifically I'll tell you the recent 1218 00:56:42,410 --> 00:56:39,270 stuff we've been finding out this is a 1219 00:56:46,790 --> 00:56:42,420 Lee Strauss's data when he has recorded 1220 00:56:48,740 --> 00:56:46,800 a few of the nighttime videos of UFOs 1221 00:56:50,930 --> 00:56:48,750 that we have that we typically in the 1222 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:50,940 old days used to think travelled in a 1223 00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:53,490 straight line when we had enough 1224 00:57:00,500 --> 00:56:56,850 capability to zoom in on those 1225 00:57:02,540 --> 00:57:00,510 trajectory basically videos that we've 1226 00:57:04,580 --> 00:57:02,550 got we're finding out that they they 1227 00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:04,590 kind of travel in a sine wave 1228 00:57:12,410 --> 00:57:09,680 that's si any wave that is basically 1229 00:57:14,540 --> 00:57:12,420 oscillating in the night sky rather than 1230 00:57:17,450 --> 00:57:14,550 in a straight line so when we find that 1231 00:57:20,570 --> 00:57:17,460 and then our data shows that this sine 1232 00:57:24,350 --> 00:57:20,580 wave seems to be very similar to the 1233 00:57:26,420 --> 00:57:24,360 Schumann resonance of our own planet the 1234 00:57:29,830 --> 00:57:26,430 whole idea that there is a bubble around 1235 00:57:32,990 --> 00:57:29,840 our planet that resonates in a certain 1236 00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:33,000 Hertz which is says 1237 00:57:40,310 --> 00:57:36,690 we'd I believe eight 37.8 III yep cycle 1238 00:57:42,620 --> 00:57:40,320 per second right Frank and this this is 1239 00:57:45,620 --> 00:57:42,630 interesting to us that when we find 1240 00:57:49,130 --> 00:57:45,630 anomalous objects that are reflecting 1241 00:57:51,260 --> 00:57:49,140 the the frequency of the human residence 1242 00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:51,270 wondering what the heck is going on 1243 00:57:56,660 --> 00:57:54,480 because airplanes are satellites and 1244 00:58:02,180 --> 00:57:56,670 those kind of man-made objects do not 1245 00:58:04,220 --> 00:58:02,190 reflect that kind of resonance and let 1246 00:58:05,930 --> 00:58:04,230 me jump in here and ask Steve really 1247 00:58:08,810 --> 00:58:05,940 quickly as Steve you were heavily 1248 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:08,820 involved with a case that was very hot 1249 00:58:12,500 --> 00:58:11,130 when I first got proactively interested 1250 00:58:15,140 --> 00:58:12,510 in all this UFO stuff 1251 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:15,150 the Stephenville case you didn't have 1252 00:58:19,820 --> 00:58:16,890 this kind of gear available back that 1253 00:58:26,030 --> 00:58:19,830 it's not about right Stephenville what's 1254 00:58:27,830 --> 00:58:26,040 that no we didn't have all those fancy 1255 00:58:28,970 --> 00:58:27,840 little apps and things of that nature we 1256 00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:28,980 just had to go down and do it the hard 1257 00:58:34,339 --> 00:58:32,400 way but the interesting thing about 1258 00:58:36,470 --> 00:58:34,349 Steven builders the entire area is 1259 00:58:40,579 --> 00:58:36,480 surrounded with a military operating 1260 00:58:42,020 --> 00:58:40,589 zone all around it and that's what 1261 00:58:47,780 --> 00:58:42,030 people were seeing for the most part 1262 00:58:50,450 --> 00:58:47,790 were airplanes flares of that nature and 1263 00:58:52,839 --> 00:58:50,460 we found out that there's only 10,000 1264 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:52,849 different types of flares that they drop 1265 00:58:58,370 --> 00:58:55,290 so each one is different in their own 1266 00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:58,380 right but what was really striking about 1267 00:59:03,820 --> 00:59:01,440 the entire thing where was the sighting 1268 00:59:06,770 --> 00:59:03,830 of what what I called the flying Walmart 1269 00:59:10,730 --> 00:59:06,780 that's the object that's a mile long or 1270 00:59:11,930 --> 00:59:10,740 wide whatever by half a mile that was 1271 00:59:15,230 --> 00:59:11,940 the one that was picked up on radar 1272 00:59:16,609 --> 00:59:15,240 right yes at one point Steve Allen his 1273 00:59:18,650 --> 00:59:16,619 group they picked that up on radar in 1274 00:59:20,750 --> 00:59:18,660 his area but there was another incident 1275 00:59:24,339 --> 00:59:20,760 of this this object that went over 1276 00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:24,349 Stephenville itself and it was viewed by 1277 00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:27,570 four or five I know four police officers 1278 00:59:32,359 --> 00:59:30,570 and these police officers were scattered 1279 00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:32,369 around Stephenville and they all saw it 1280 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:35,730 so that puts a little credence but then 1281 00:59:43,940 --> 00:59:40,770 you have to ask yourself why would an 1282 00:59:47,170 --> 00:59:43,950 extraterrestrial race whatever fly a 1283 00:59:50,750 --> 00:59:47,180 massive ship very slow 1284 00:59:52,540 --> 00:59:50,760 over Stephenville where they know good 1285 00:59:56,270 --> 00:59:52,550 and well that's the Planet of the Apes 1286 00:59:57,849 --> 00:59:56,280 and they all have guns and not to 1287 01:00:00,530 --> 00:59:57,859 mention that they're in the middle of a 1288 01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:00,540 military fly zone so I have to ask 1289 01:00:05,900 --> 01:00:04,410 myself what was it really us or them and 1290 01:00:07,970 --> 01:00:05,910 that that one of those guys would be 1291 01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:07,980 that Officer X fella do you ride you 1292 01:00:13,250 --> 01:00:10,170 know who I'm talking about there yes 1293 01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:13,260 okay okay now I remember him doing an 1294 01:00:18,410 --> 01:00:16,530 interview on that Angela joiners podcast 1295 01:00:21,770 --> 01:00:18,420 when she had one now way back in the day 1296 01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:21,780 back in prehistoric times where he said 1297 01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:23,520 that he was able to track it with his 1298 01:00:27,140 --> 01:00:24,960 radar I guess I had the radar you'd 1299 01:00:29,420 --> 01:00:27,150 normally used to track speeders and he 1300 01:00:32,270 --> 01:00:29,430 had it's a whopping speed of like 35 1301 01:00:33,589 --> 01:00:32,280 miles an hour's something like that yes 1302 01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:33,599 that's what I'm saying is going by real 1303 01:00:40,790 --> 01:00:38,880 slow yeah now the that case still it 1304 01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:40,800 attracted an awful lot of attention you 1305 01:00:45,500 --> 01:00:43,280 think a lot of those sightings were 1306 01:00:47,839 --> 01:00:45,510 misidentifications but there might be 1307 01:00:49,310 --> 01:00:47,849 one or two in there that were pretty 1308 01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:49,320 serious the one that was picked up on 1309 01:00:57,410 --> 01:00:53,250 radar exactly and I mean to tell you 1310 01:01:00,620 --> 01:00:57,420 when we went down there it was it was 1311 01:01:03,170 --> 01:01:00,630 startling because we had the meeting in 1312 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:03,180 in Dublin Texas there where they make 1313 01:01:09,620 --> 01:01:07,770 dub the dr. pepper and they only have 1314 01:01:13,099 --> 01:01:09,630 two red lights in that entire town and 1315 01:01:17,859 --> 01:01:13,109 when we when we got down there they they 1316 01:01:22,070 --> 01:01:17,869 witnessed the only traffic blockage in 1317 01:01:23,810 --> 01:01:22,080 that city in the city's lifetime there 1318 01:01:27,290 --> 01:01:23,820 was that many people down there for this 1319 01:01:30,589 --> 01:01:27,300 meeting the the room that we had there 1320 01:01:32,660 --> 01:01:30,599 was completely full overrun people had 1321 01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:32,670 to stand outside and they left most of 1322 01:01:39,470 --> 01:01:36,570 them did but what really struck me the 1323 01:01:43,070 --> 01:01:39,480 most was when it was time when the pair 1324 01:01:45,079 --> 01:01:43,080 had had to talk and I went up there and 1325 01:01:47,780 --> 01:01:45,089 looked and and the podium that was in 1326 01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:47,790 front of me was just staggered with all 1327 01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:49,890 these microphones I said man what looked 1328 01:01:55,250 --> 01:01:51,810 like a cactus I said what is this I 1329 01:01:59,329 --> 01:01:55,260 looked up and right in front of me in a 1330 01:02:00,500 --> 01:01:59,339 semicircle were cameras ABC NBC a band 1331 01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:00,510 all of them were there nice 1332 01:02:07,970 --> 01:02:02,850 I really started getting kind of oh here 1333 01:02:11,450 --> 01:02:07,980 we go but it was it was an event all 1334 01:02:14,530 --> 01:02:11,460 right but for the most part they were 1335 01:02:21,620 --> 01:02:14,540 identifying like I said known objects 1336 01:02:23,330 --> 01:02:21,630 until the flying warmer Oh Steve you're 1337 01:02:28,090 --> 01:02:23,340 breaking up yeah you're breaking up a 1338 01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:30,890 yes until the flying Walmart flew by 1339 01:02:35,150 --> 01:02:32,490 that's that's the only thing that was 1340 01:02:36,980 --> 01:02:35,160 really standing out now now folks that 1341 01:02:38,810 --> 01:02:36,990 that that don't remember I mean this 1342 01:02:40,430 --> 01:02:38,820 said this case got a lot of national 1343 01:02:43,580 --> 01:02:40,440 attention talking about the network's 1344 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:43,590 Larry King made the pilgrimage down 1345 01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:46,410 there from DC and I had quite a few 1346 01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:48,630 people on dedicated an entire show to 1347 01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:51,450 the case and I think it's pretty 1348 01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:54,090 interesting at the time when it was 1349 01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:55,410 happening and that what's really 1350 01:03:01,550 --> 01:02:57,570 interesting about it now is it seems to 1351 01:03:03,260 --> 01:03:01,560 be pretty well forgotten and it actually 1352 01:03:05,180 --> 01:03:03,270 happened in I guess so what the 1353 01:03:07,610 --> 01:03:05,190 late-2008 is that when most of the 1354 01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:07,620 sightings popped up it was actually 1355 01:03:15,380 --> 01:03:11,610 early 2008 for over in dollars okay okay 1356 01:03:19,340 --> 01:03:15,390 there was another incident at the latter 1357 01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:19,350 part of the year in November and it was 1358 01:03:27,110 --> 01:03:22,530 actually a more striking incident than 1359 01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:27,120 the first one okay several witnesses we 1360 01:03:36,170 --> 01:03:32,850 have a radar a radar analysis of the of 1361 01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:36,180 it by I forget his name the Montana 1362 01:03:40,970 --> 01:03:38,970 State Director but but we didn't make a 1363 01:03:42,890 --> 01:03:40,980 big hay day out of that because I 1364 01:03:46,370 --> 01:03:42,900 actually got tired of doing all the 1365 01:03:48,650 --> 01:03:46,380 radio interviews well thanks for joining 1366 01:03:50,900 --> 01:03:48,660 us today and one other thing I think 1367 01:03:52,910 --> 01:03:50,910 it's quite interesting now it seems to 1368 01:03:55,610 --> 01:03:52,920 be completely forgotten it's really the 1369 01:03:57,770 --> 01:03:55,620 last time I think an entire community 1370 01:04:00,770 --> 01:03:57,780 has kind of gotten up in arms over a 1371 01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:00,780 series of UFO sightings and that is it's 1372 01:04:05,630 --> 01:04:03,450 a one UFO sighting that did get a lot of 1373 01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:05,640 attention in his day that happened right 1374 01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:08,490 smack dab in the middle when this this a 1375 01:04:14,140 --> 01:04:11,850 tip program was going on and I did get 1376 01:04:16,329 --> 01:04:14,150 the opportunity to ask George Knapp 1377 01:04:18,609 --> 01:04:16,339 tip looked at Stephenville at all and he 1378 01:04:20,950 --> 01:04:18,619 said that it was investigated he wasn't 1379 01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:20,960 sure if it was a tip or a SAP but 1380 01:04:25,299 --> 01:04:23,839 somebody it was investigated so I was 1381 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:25,309 wondering if you have any additional 1382 01:04:29,859 --> 01:04:28,010 feedback on all that yeah it's kind of 1383 01:04:31,269 --> 01:04:29,869 funny when somebody investigation and so 1384 01:04:40,539 --> 01:04:31,279 then and they don't call the 1385 01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:40,549 investigators no one called me okay I 1386 01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:44,410 did you want to chime in on that topic 1387 01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:49,010 what on Steven yeah I know you're still 1388 01:04:53,230 --> 01:04:50,930 Robbie I working with Robert Powell and 1389 01:04:55,180 --> 01:04:53,240 he's the one who put together the report 1390 01:04:56,529 --> 01:04:55,190 that included the radar data so yeah if 1391 01:04:58,859 --> 01:04:56,539 you've got anything additional 1392 01:05:01,750 --> 01:04:58,869 I'd jump in with you I would like to 1393 01:05:03,609 --> 01:05:01,760 know this really I have nothing more to 1394 01:05:05,620 --> 01:05:03,619 add to what he's done he's done a 1395 01:05:08,980 --> 01:05:05,630 fabulous job with that what I was going 1396 01:05:10,569 --> 01:05:08,990 to chime in on the was more along the 1397 01:05:12,279 --> 01:05:10,579 lines of the topic we were talking about 1398 01:05:13,990 --> 01:05:12,289 which was the drones and various other 1399 01:05:17,859 --> 01:05:14,000 kinds of things like satellites and stop 1400 01:05:19,839 --> 01:05:17,869 please don't please the Chinese lights 1401 01:05:23,620 --> 01:05:19,849 and so I happen to be at one location 1402 01:05:25,839 --> 01:05:23,630 where I was actually watching 40 of 1403 01:05:29,799 --> 01:05:25,849 these lights being shot off if you would 1404 01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:29,809 and and I looked at my wife and I said 1405 01:05:34,210 --> 01:05:31,520 watch I'm gonna get you up all reports 1406 01:05:37,809 --> 01:05:34,220 and sure enough before I got home I had 1407 01:05:41,079 --> 01:05:37,819 I had UFO reports and this one guy said 1408 01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:41,089 man I'm work at NASA and I'm an engineer 1409 01:05:45,549 --> 01:05:42,770 and I thought that there was a UFO 1410 01:05:48,130 --> 01:05:45,559 investigation or an invasion going on 1411 01:05:51,940 --> 01:05:48,140 because he saw all 40 of them going over 1412 01:05:54,010 --> 01:05:51,950 the highway so anyway they they tend to 1413 01:05:56,529 --> 01:05:54,020 be flickering they could be different 1414 01:06:00,039 --> 01:05:56,539 colors besides the orange depending upon 1415 01:06:03,309 --> 01:06:00,049 the bag or whatever you have that is lit 1416 01:06:05,859 --> 01:06:03,319 up so you can have the if you would that 1417 01:06:09,010 --> 01:06:05,869 the bag could be a red color it could be 1418 01:06:11,349 --> 01:06:09,020 a lot of other colors and and then 1419 01:06:13,510 --> 01:06:11,359 they've they've added some other kinds 1420 01:06:15,339 --> 01:06:13,520 of features to these things as well they 1421 01:06:17,710 --> 01:06:15,349 got different sizes to them so that can 1422 01:06:20,230 --> 01:06:17,720 even confuse you even more okay you 1423 01:06:24,279 --> 01:06:20,240 could have a Chinese lantern but those 1424 01:06:26,109 --> 01:06:24,289 tend to flicker a lot of times and as 1425 01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:26,119 pointed out earlier they'll they'll 1426 01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:28,010 eventually go out 1427 01:06:33,370 --> 01:06:30,890 and we look for wind direction for that 1428 01:06:35,230 --> 01:06:33,380 we can determine speeds of them and they 1429 01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:35,240 do have a good clip they'll take off 1430 01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:38,090 once they get up to a little bit above 1431 01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:39,890 the ground level I know the wind can 1432 01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:42,770 just make them zip along a lot of people 1433 01:06:45,970 --> 01:06:44,090 were doing that but then they were 1434 01:06:47,890 --> 01:06:45,980 running into problems where even these 1435 01:06:51,790 --> 01:06:47,900 things would drop in a dry area and it 1436 01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:51,800 could cause a right on fire a lot of 1437 01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:53,920 places we're shutting them down on that 1438 01:06:58,810 --> 01:06:56,690 I'll also point out that drones are not 1439 01:07:03,609 --> 01:06:58,820 supposed to be flown in the evening 1440 01:07:06,550 --> 01:07:03,619 after dark according to the FAA and and 1441 01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:06,560 so that's cutting back on a lot of drone 1442 01:07:10,420 --> 01:07:08,090 flights you're supposed to be within a 1443 01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:10,430 light of sight and but yet you still 1444 01:07:14,890 --> 01:07:13,130 will see people doing like fireworks 1445 01:07:18,609 --> 01:07:14,900 displays and you'll see drones around 1446 01:07:21,370 --> 01:07:18,619 them I've watched a set of four drones 1447 01:07:23,859 --> 01:07:21,380 just past fourth of July that we're 1448 01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:23,869 zipping around and doing some incredible 1449 01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:27,650 kinds of things they again I mentioned 1450 01:07:30,550 --> 01:07:28,850 the light patterns could be all 1451 01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:30,560 different kinds of things on them and 1452 01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:32,330 you just have to be aware that they can 1453 01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:34,850 that they're there and and and know that 1454 01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:37,970 that is a potential confusion that a lot 1455 01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:40,690 of people will have about that is 1456 01:07:45,490 --> 01:07:43,280 satellites you know tend to be one of 1457 01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:45,500 those things that are very small and 1458 01:07:51,670 --> 01:07:49,280 lighted back or I'll be honest with you 1459 01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:51,680 a lot of people that may see a satellite 1460 01:07:58,300 --> 01:07:54,410 might also being seeing a high flying 1461 01:08:00,910 --> 01:07:58,310 jet and you know if you take a look at 1462 01:08:03,940 --> 01:08:00,920 the size of an aircraft that might be 1463 01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:03,950 flying at 40,000 feet and you look down 1464 01:08:09,700 --> 01:08:05,920 at the ground even from that of a bog 1465 01:08:10,330 --> 01:08:09,710 everything is like a spot you can't see 1466 01:08:13,570 --> 01:08:10,340 anything 1467 01:08:15,970 --> 01:08:13,580 and so aircraft could be flying over it 1468 01:08:18,190 --> 01:08:15,980 and and and you know and you wouldn't 1469 01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:18,200 even know what that what that is as well 1470 01:08:23,650 --> 01:08:20,330 so there's a lot of things that are in 1471 01:08:26,170 --> 01:08:23,660 the atmosphere that we just don't know 1472 01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:26,180 the earth light phenomena that I'm 1473 01:08:31,570 --> 01:08:28,970 looking at Riverdale I mean that's just 1474 01:08:33,550 --> 01:08:31,580 the eight foot in diameter balls of like 1475 01:08:36,610 --> 01:08:33,560 something like a glowing gas if you 1476 01:08:39,070 --> 01:08:36,620 would and those things are moving the 1477 01:08:41,440 --> 01:08:39,080 lawn but a good clip about 20 miles an 1478 01:08:43,300 --> 01:08:41,450 hour and they're they're going along and 1479 01:08:45,460 --> 01:08:43,310 they're completely you know natural 1480 01:08:47,050 --> 01:08:45,470 objects or not you have those but I 1481 01:08:51,340 --> 01:08:47,060 think a lot of those things are being 1482 01:08:53,530 --> 01:08:51,350 reported and people see those things if 1483 01:08:55,270 --> 01:08:53,540 you would spook lights so there's a lot 1484 01:08:57,850 --> 01:08:55,280 of phenomenon we need to be aware of and 1485 01:09:00,010 --> 01:08:57,860 a lot of confusion on the part of a lot 1486 01:09:02,020 --> 01:09:00,020 of the public and the more we can 1487 01:09:04,090 --> 01:09:02,030 educate the public the better off it'll 1488 01:09:07,300 --> 01:09:04,100 be so I wanted to bring up something 1489 01:09:09,490 --> 01:09:07,310 that dr. Irena Scott brought up in our 1490 01:09:10,810 --> 01:09:09,500 last program I just wanted to give a 1491 01:09:12,490 --> 01:09:10,820 little background on her for our 1492 01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:12,500 listeners so they know who she is she's 1493 01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:14,210 a great great grand news of John Purdue 1494 01:09:18,340 --> 01:09:16,250 she has a PhD in physiology from the 1495 01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:18,350 University of Missouri and was an 1496 01:09:22,810 --> 01:09:20,690 assistant professor of biology at st. 1497 01:09:27,190 --> 01:09:22,820 Bonaventure University she's published 1498 01:09:29,350 --> 01:09:27,200 works in biology and about UFO the UFO 1499 01:09:32,650 --> 01:09:29,360 topic numerous times and Ohio history 1500 01:09:36,070 --> 01:09:32,660 and Irina was also on the MUFON Board of 1501 01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:36,080 Directors in 90s through the 2000 2000 1502 01:09:40,450 --> 01:09:38,210 an investigator and consultant and was 1503 01:09:42,490 --> 01:09:40,460 an investigator for QED folks she 1504 01:09:44,380 --> 01:09:42,500 brought up a theory that she expressed 1505 01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:44,390 in her book inside the lightning ball 1506 01:09:50,980 --> 01:09:47,690 and at the 2019 MUFON symposium 1507 01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:50,990 presentation that some UFOs may be 1508 01:09:56,860 --> 01:09:54,050 images such as holograms volumetric 1509 01:09:59,140 --> 01:09:56,870 display or similar things now if we're 1510 01:10:01,480 --> 01:09:59,150 dealing with the phenomenon that is at 1511 01:10:04,390 --> 01:10:01,490 times intangible hell then are we 1512 01:10:06,310 --> 01:10:04,400 supposed to capture that and with the 1513 01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:06,320 forensic tools we have available to us 1514 01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:09,410 determine really what it is or what it's 1515 01:10:17,020 --> 01:10:15,170 not anyone well I think you have to be 1516 01:10:19,690 --> 01:10:17,030 pretty lucky to get something that's 1517 01:10:23,140 --> 01:10:19,700 really anomalous that's really when it 1518 01:10:25,930 --> 01:10:23,150 comes down to one thing that is not 1519 01:10:28,900 --> 01:10:25,940 really being honed in on is every time 1520 01:10:31,390 --> 01:10:28,910 especially Lou Elizondo is getting asked 1521 01:10:35,470 --> 01:10:31,400 about frequency the frequency of these 1522 01:10:36,910 --> 01:10:35,480 type of tic-tac Roosevelt type cases you 1523 01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:36,920 can't get a straight answer out of the 1524 01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:39,770 guy in I know when he was at your 1525 01:10:43,420 --> 01:10:41,810 conference rich that was one of the 1526 01:10:44,940 --> 01:10:43,430 better questions that was asked of him 1527 01:10:47,590 --> 01:10:44,950 he said he didn't know at that point 1528 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:47,600 when they did the show over the summer 1529 01:10:51,990 --> 01:10:50,090 time the unidentified show he said it 1530 01:10:55,140 --> 01:10:52,000 was a sensitive number 1531 01:10:56,310 --> 01:10:55,150 it's like without that and you know we 1532 01:10:58,680 --> 01:10:56,320 might be talking about something that 1533 01:11:01,080 --> 01:10:58,690 maybe happens once a month 1534 01:11:02,370 --> 01:11:01,090 quarterly who knows it might be 1535 01:11:04,230 --> 01:11:02,380 something that's happening quite 1536 01:11:10,290 --> 01:11:04,240 regularly I mean we really just don't 1537 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:10,300 know yeah precisely yeah Michael yeah 1538 01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:13,210 yeah this is Michael again you know you 1539 01:11:19,890 --> 01:11:14,890 you hit the nail right on the head there 1540 01:11:22,890 --> 01:11:19,900 Frank because we have been able to just 1541 01:11:25,290 --> 01:11:22,900 recently now kind of get that frequency 1542 01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:25,300 data from these au ap that we're 1543 01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:29,170 noticing on video and I it's very 1544 01:11:33,630 --> 01:11:30,610 interesting to me that you're saying 1545 01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:33,640 that that Lou doesn't want to go there 1546 01:11:39,180 --> 01:11:35,730 at this point to kind of get to that 1547 01:11:42,480 --> 01:11:39,190 detail oh you know what these anomalous 1548 01:11:45,570 --> 01:11:42,490 objects are giving off as far as 1549 01:11:49,620 --> 01:11:45,580 frequencies either in the the light the 1550 01:11:52,260 --> 01:11:49,630 FLIR or whatever a zone of you know 1551 01:11:54,270 --> 01:11:52,270 capture we can get them in because it's 1552 01:11:55,980 --> 01:11:54,280 you know yeah Michael I'd just to be 1553 01:11:58,170 --> 01:11:55,990 clear when I say frequency in this 1554 01:11:59,670 --> 01:11:58,180 context I mean how often are these types 1555 01:12:02,430 --> 01:11:59,680 of things happening and not talking 1556 01:12:04,650 --> 01:12:02,440 about you know uh frequent light sound 1557 01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:04,660 frequency that kind of thing but that ya 1558 01:12:08,670 --> 01:12:06,250 know keep going keep going I just wanted 1559 01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:08,680 to jump in there yeah I think that is 1560 01:12:15,150 --> 01:12:10,690 going to be the wave of the future as 1561 01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:15,160 far as our scientific ability to to 1562 01:12:19,460 --> 01:12:17,410 research all of this data if we can 1563 01:12:23,940 --> 01:12:19,470 actually come up with now with the 1564 01:12:26,990 --> 01:12:23,950 frequencies through Hertz and cycles per 1565 01:12:30,060 --> 01:12:27,000 second of how these lights travel and 1566 01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:30,070 what kind of signals they emit those are 1567 01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:33,130 really going to be telling on how and 1568 01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:36,370 when these things are being cited as 1569 01:12:41,250 --> 01:12:39,250 anomalous or or if they're known craft 1570 01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:41,260 out there so I think that's gonna be a 1571 01:12:47,490 --> 01:12:43,690 fascinating thing for us on the UFO 1572 01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:47,500 i-team for the future that's um that's a 1573 01:12:51,210 --> 01:12:49,570 good point this is rich I just want to 1574 01:12:52,970 --> 01:12:51,220 point out to you that even in the 1575 01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:52,980 Cloverdale case where you have these 1576 01:12:59,100 --> 01:12:55,440 repeatable lights you know if you would 1577 01:13:00,840 --> 01:12:59,110 part of what we're looking at is is 1578 01:13:04,230 --> 01:13:00,850 there some sort of a resonance that's 1579 01:13:05,790 --> 01:13:04,240 going on with the object that they're 1580 01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:05,800 described as being like a 1581 01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:08,530 Waltzing kind of thing so there might be 1582 01:13:14,460 --> 01:13:10,570 some sort of cycling if you would that's 1583 01:13:17,820 --> 01:13:14,470 going on about the inside of the ball if 1584 01:13:22,260 --> 01:13:17,830 you would and then we're looking at the 1585 01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:22,270 the other part of that is that you know 1586 01:13:28,110 --> 01:13:25,090 I we've dealt with the microwave 1587 01:13:29,970 --> 01:13:28,120 radiation there's there's a different 1588 01:13:31,590 --> 01:13:29,980 kinds of like I said the magnetometer 1589 01:13:33,420 --> 01:13:31,600 kind of things there's all different 1590 01:13:36,690 --> 01:13:33,430 kinds of these these things we need to 1591 01:13:39,570 --> 01:13:36,700 really get and you can't get them from 1592 01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:39,580 you know things like a high-flying like 1593 01:13:43,410 --> 01:13:41,530 this guy okay you're not going to get 1594 01:13:45,180 --> 01:13:43,420 those if you don't have you don't have 1595 01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:45,190 the equipment to be able to have the 1596 01:13:50,010 --> 01:13:47,770 sensors to be get to be are the 1597 01:13:52,110 --> 01:13:50,020 sensitivity to be able to pick up 1598 01:13:54,180 --> 01:13:52,120 something that might be at 40,000 feet 1599 01:13:57,480 --> 01:13:54,190 okay I mean I'm sorry you're not going 1600 01:13:59,340 --> 01:13:57,490 to be able to get that but on close 1601 01:14:02,700 --> 01:13:59,350 encounters if you would where you're 1602 01:14:06,090 --> 01:14:02,710 very close that kind of data is very 1603 01:14:08,970 --> 01:14:06,100 very crucial and so we need to be able 1604 01:14:12,210 --> 01:14:08,980 to get that kind of data around close 1605 01:14:14,550 --> 01:14:12,220 objects if you would and to start to 1606 01:14:17,370 --> 01:14:14,560 learn at all those kinds of things like 1607 01:14:20,790 --> 01:14:17,380 you're talking about there was a case 1608 01:14:22,470 --> 01:14:20,800 that I know that the Robert Khalid 1609 01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:22,480 looked into it was also one of the case 1610 01:14:28,500 --> 01:14:25,210 of years and MUFON where there was that 1611 01:14:32,490 --> 01:14:28,510 dumbbell shaped object and on that 1612 01:14:35,610 --> 01:14:32,500 particular instance the individual was 1613 01:14:37,860 --> 01:14:35,620 able to get an audio recording and then 1614 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:37,870 when you actually played the audio 1615 01:14:43,890 --> 01:14:39,970 recording you're able to actually hear 1616 01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:43,900 some sort of a a type of pulsation if 1617 01:14:49,110 --> 01:14:46,210 you would that's going on around the 1618 01:14:51,980 --> 01:14:49,120 object and so that kind of information 1619 01:14:54,750 --> 01:14:51,990 is extremely important to have and 1620 01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:54,760 allows then us to get a better 1621 01:15:00,630 --> 01:14:56,650 understanding of an object that is 1622 01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:00,640 extremely elusive and we don't often 1623 01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:02,770 have the gear to be able to capture 1624 01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:06,730 solid data about so we need to keep 1625 01:15:12,870 --> 01:15:08,890 doing that and learning and utilizing 1626 01:15:14,820 --> 01:15:12,880 better tools and I'm glad that that 1627 01:15:16,620 --> 01:15:14,830 you're addressing this on the air right 1628 01:15:19,740 --> 01:15:16,630 now because I think it's an important 1629 01:15:21,930 --> 01:15:19,750 aspect of our where we need to go 1630 01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:21,940 is got to be around the toolsets there's 1631 01:15:28,140 --> 01:15:25,450 a lot of projects that are out there you 1632 01:15:30,210 --> 01:15:28,150 fo gap is one of them UFO data has 1633 01:15:32,460 --> 01:15:30,220 something that they're doing 1634 01:15:34,590 --> 01:15:32,470 you have the made our project and 1635 01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:34,600 they're all trying to build these kinds 1636 01:15:39,990 --> 01:15:37,170 of devices that will have even 1637 01:15:43,890 --> 01:15:40,000 magnetometers or and then they feed data 1638 01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:43,900 if you would into a central database and 1639 01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:46,480 the there are excellent projects and 1640 01:15:51,210 --> 01:15:48,850 will help us get a lot of good 1641 01:15:53,100 --> 01:15:51,220 information and data and thank you for 1642 01:15:55,980 --> 01:15:53,110 talking about that rich by the way 1643 01:15:58,380 --> 01:15:55,990 regarding radar we do as rich does no 1644 01:16:00,990 --> 01:15:58,390 have an interview with Frances Ridge 1645 01:16:02,550 --> 01:16:01,000 who's head of made our and that will be 1646 01:16:04,050 --> 01:16:02,560 on Wednesday of next week in the evening 1647 01:16:05,970 --> 01:16:04,060 7:00 p.m. 1648 01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:05,980 Arizona time I wanted to bring up 1649 01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:08,410 something yet again regarding the topic 1650 01:16:14,550 --> 01:16:10,570 of sort of the multi-dimensional nature 1651 01:16:16,980 --> 01:16:14,560 of possibly of this phenomenon I'll give 1652 01:16:20,700 --> 01:16:16,990 an example dr. Richard Haines who worked 1653 01:16:21,780 --> 01:16:20,710 for NASA Michael Hall actually knows him 1654 01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:21,790 very well 1655 01:16:26,010 --> 01:16:23,530 he's very close to him and that is also 1656 01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:26,020 a client of his I wanted to read 1657 01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:28,930 something that dr. Richard Haines said 1658 01:16:33,690 --> 01:16:31,090 and so I'm just cutting right into an 1659 01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:33,700 interview he had and so it's not really 1660 01:16:37,580 --> 01:16:35,290 going to start off at the beginning it's 1661 01:16:40,770 --> 01:16:37,590 in the middle of the interview he says 1662 01:16:43,020 --> 01:16:40,780 that's my experience in general you are 1663 01:16:46,140 --> 01:16:43,030 exactly right I share your view that it 1664 01:16:48,810 --> 01:16:46,150 is extremely multi-dimensional he's 1665 01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:48,820 talking about the UFO phenomenon so much 1666 01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:50,770 so that traditional science is really 1667 01:16:55,170 --> 01:16:52,570 not up to the task 1668 01:16:58,020 --> 01:16:55,180 now that's an insight that has come 1669 01:17:00,780 --> 01:16:58,030 slowly over the years because I clung to 1670 01:17:03,300 --> 01:17:00,790 science as a method a technique to tease 1671 01:17:05,370 --> 01:17:03,310 out these fine points and eventually get 1672 01:17:07,860 --> 01:17:05,380 to the bottom of it but the longer I am 1673 01:17:10,500 --> 01:17:07,870 looking at the evidence the less I am 1674 01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:10,510 convinced that's the way to go there 1675 01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:12,250 certainly as a part of the phenomenon 1676 01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:15,130 that will yield to science but there is 1677 01:17:21,030 --> 01:17:18,490 a whole other psychic or psychological 1678 01:17:24,060 --> 01:17:21,040 dimension and that not even psychology 1679 01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:24,070 is going to come close to I can see why 1680 01:17:29,010 --> 01:17:26,050 a lot of my colleagues are in denial 1681 01:17:32,370 --> 01:17:29,020 about this he said it's simply too much 1682 01:17:33,569 --> 01:17:32,380 to get your mind around regarding the 1683 01:17:36,359 --> 01:17:33,579 topic of 1684 01:17:38,639 --> 01:17:36,369 the UFO phenomena phenomena well what 1685 01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:38,649 what does everybody everybody's thought 1686 01:17:46,219 --> 01:17:43,449 processes on that how do we capture that 1687 01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:46,229 and record it if it's that 1688 01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:48,489 multi-dimensional and science isn't up 1689 01:17:55,379 --> 01:17:52,530 to the task of getting it so to speak 1690 01:17:57,209 --> 01:17:55,389 witness testimony is very important 1691 01:18:00,149 --> 01:17:57,219 still you know you have to remember that 1692 01:18:02,819 --> 01:18:00,159 we are sort of Leonardo da Vinci trying 1693 01:18:04,770 --> 01:18:02,829 to take a part I phone you know and 1694 01:18:06,419 --> 01:18:04,780 there's some things that are simply 1695 01:18:08,909 --> 01:18:06,429 going to be out of our reach you know I 1696 01:18:11,579 --> 01:18:08,919 mean you look at the whole lot 1697 01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:11,589 the nimitz affair and and how it was 1698 01:18:17,939 --> 01:18:15,010 breaking physical laws as we know them 1699 01:18:21,209 --> 01:18:17,949 and you know it doesn't mean that it was 1700 01:18:23,250 --> 01:18:21,219 not a scientific phenomena that was 1701 01:18:27,029 --> 01:18:23,260 happening or that was magic it's just 1702 01:18:29,459 --> 01:18:27,039 that it's it's beyond what we can do and 1703 01:18:32,549 --> 01:18:29,469 maybe even understand you know that 1704 01:18:34,619 --> 01:18:32,559 there were not repeated sonic booms or a 1705 01:18:36,810 --> 01:18:34,629 fireball created you know and this thing 1706 01:18:39,899 --> 01:18:36,820 was you know making 90-degree turns at 1707 01:18:43,290 --> 01:18:39,909 that speed so that's where I think 1708 01:18:46,469 --> 01:18:43,300 witness testimony as simple as it is if 1709 01:18:49,500 --> 01:18:46,479 you have multiple witnesses collating 1710 01:18:52,079 --> 01:18:49,510 their reports and and you know you can 1711 01:18:54,149 --> 01:18:52,089 put together a pretty good picture with 1712 01:18:55,799 --> 01:18:54,159 that and it you know you remember it I 1713 01:18:59,909 --> 01:18:55,809 mean it's Michael all knows that that 1714 01:19:01,619 --> 01:18:59,919 will hold up in court you know look so 1715 01:19:05,669 --> 01:19:01,629 let's take a look at a case for example 1716 01:19:07,349 --> 01:19:05,679 the Jay al in case for example where you 1717 01:19:09,569 --> 01:19:07,359 have an object that like just appears 1718 01:19:11,069 --> 01:19:09,579 out of nowhere and you would think that 1719 01:19:13,469 --> 01:19:11,079 that would be an example of a 1720 01:19:15,239 --> 01:19:13,479 multi-dimensional if you would not that 1721 01:19:17,310 --> 01:19:15,249 we've ever seen anything go into another 1722 01:19:18,839 --> 01:19:17,320 dimension by the way or were even aware 1723 01:19:22,409 --> 01:19:18,849 of what another dimension really is 1724 01:19:26,159 --> 01:19:22,419 because it's small theoretical but my my 1725 01:19:27,810 --> 01:19:26,169 point being that you know that that 1726 01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:27,820 object kind of appeared out of nowhere 1727 01:19:35,459 --> 01:19:30,489 and it's being tracked by two different 1728 01:19:37,819 --> 01:19:35,469 radars so I mean even if you would some 1729 01:19:40,589 --> 01:19:37,829 object that appears out of nowhere is 1730 01:19:43,199 --> 01:19:40,599 apparently being capable of being 1731 01:19:47,370 --> 01:19:43,209 perceived or by some sort of sensory 1732 01:19:48,780 --> 01:19:47,380 device and then take a look at the fat 1733 01:19:51,210 --> 01:19:48,790 that you have Ted Phillips who was 1734 01:19:54,450 --> 01:19:51,220 collecting over a four to five thousand 1735 01:19:58,680 --> 01:19:54,460 you know physical effects from these 1736 01:20:00,240 --> 01:19:58,690 objects so I'm that you can't ignore the 1737 01:20:02,010 --> 01:20:00,250 fact that they're out there creating 1738 01:20:04,290 --> 01:20:02,020 they're being picked up on radar 1739 01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:04,300 sometimes they're not other times maybe 1740 01:20:09,930 --> 01:20:06,610 that's in the nature of that particular 1741 01:20:12,060 --> 01:20:09,940 radar set its frequency that it's tuned 1742 01:20:13,650 --> 01:20:12,070 to that may be that that's why that 1743 01:20:19,790 --> 01:20:13,660 radar station picked it up and the other 1744 01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:19,800 one didn't but they are being captured 1745 01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:23,170 and so I'm not exactly sure where to go 1746 01:20:27,420 --> 01:20:25,690 with that multi-dimensional kind of 1747 01:20:29,820 --> 01:20:27,430 thing that's too like more of a theory 1748 01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:29,830 about where they come from I guess as 1749 01:20:33,690 --> 01:20:32,170 opposed to anything else but it has 1750 01:20:36,450 --> 01:20:33,700 nothing to do with the fact that it's 1751 01:20:40,590 --> 01:20:36,460 being perceived in our atmosphere by an 1752 01:20:44,580 --> 01:20:40,600 individual being captured on film it's 1753 01:20:47,790 --> 01:20:44,590 also sometimes tracked on radar and so I 1754 01:20:51,150 --> 01:20:47,800 don't know where to go with it Shane I 1755 01:20:52,980 --> 01:20:51,160 you know you had this interesting 1756 01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:52,990 training event that's at what is the 1757 01:20:57,300 --> 01:20:55,090 annual or happens every so often with 1758 01:20:59,510 --> 01:20:57,310 MUFON it's a training camp for folks to 1759 01:21:03,140 --> 01:20:59,520 understand a little bit more about 1760 01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:03,150 attaining skill sets for investigating 1761 01:21:09,090 --> 01:21:06,370 the UFO phenomenon and more wanted to 1762 01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:09,100 ask you what do you do if you're faced 1763 01:21:15,660 --> 01:21:13,090 with a possible real UFO phenomenon so 1764 01:21:18,470 --> 01:21:15,670 to speak and it's blinking in and out 1765 01:21:23,070 --> 01:21:18,480 and it doesn't appear to be tangible 1766 01:21:25,350 --> 01:21:23,080 what then yeah I'm a good question and 1767 01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:25,360 how do you train people on that is what 1768 01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:27,370 I meant to connect that with the camp 1769 01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:30,250 that you guys had yeah it's a matter of 1770 01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:32,530 judgment and it's just one piece of data 1771 01:21:37,650 --> 01:21:34,210 out of all of the data that you collect 1772 01:21:41,370 --> 01:21:37,660 so know one thing no one photo no one 1773 01:21:44,540 --> 01:21:41,380 video no no testimony on its own you 1774 01:21:46,820 --> 01:21:44,550 know can really achieve a 100% 1775 01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:46,830 identification so you have to take it in 1776 01:21:52,350 --> 01:21:50,650 context with the other data and so yeah 1777 01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:52,360 it's true you know ninety percent of the 1778 01:21:58,830 --> 01:21:55,810 time you can identify these things these 1779 01:22:01,500 --> 01:21:58,840 reports as prosaic objects but 1780 01:22:05,010 --> 01:22:01,510 I mean for the sake of argument 90% and 1781 01:22:09,570 --> 01:22:05,020 10% unknown but to me the real question 1782 01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:09,580 is is is you know why why why is there 1783 01:22:16,710 --> 01:22:13,690 90% misidentification I mean what is it 1784 01:22:18,420 --> 01:22:16,720 about what people are seeing why they're 1785 01:22:21,330 --> 01:22:18,430 seeing at how they're seeing it what is 1786 01:22:24,210 --> 01:22:21,340 it that causes them to misinterpret you 1787 01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:24,220 know something prosaic versus something 1788 01:22:29,670 --> 01:22:26,530 not and to me that that's where there's 1789 01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:29,680 a lot of room for us to you know educate 1790 01:22:34,410 --> 01:22:32,770 and and you know help the cause because 1791 01:22:36,690 --> 01:22:34,420 you know you have to wade through ninety 1792 01:22:39,690 --> 01:22:36,700 percent of the cases till you get to one 1793 01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:39,700 that's you know potentially you know 1794 01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:42,730 unexplainable I mean people just aren't 1795 01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:45,370 used to the context by which they see 1796 01:22:48,810 --> 01:22:46,690 things right we don't walk around 1797 01:22:50,940 --> 01:22:48,820 looking up all the time we look straight 1798 01:22:53,070 --> 01:22:50,950 ahead or down but on the occasion that 1799 01:22:55,500 --> 01:22:53,080 we do when we see something you know 1800 01:22:58,800 --> 01:22:55,510 people kind of leap to that this is an 1801 01:23:00,930 --> 01:22:58,810 unexplainable thing but you know in 1802 01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:00,940 relation to our whole conversation here 1803 01:23:05,370 --> 01:23:03,370 you know ninety percent that that 1804 01:23:07,350 --> 01:23:05,380 represents a whole bunch of stuff and 1805 01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:07,360 you can do the process of elimination 1806 01:23:12,180 --> 01:23:09,730 yourself there's an eyewitness right you 1807 01:23:14,010 --> 01:23:12,190 can say hey that looks weird but you 1808 01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:14,020 know I'm in this city and there's lots 1809 01:23:19,380 --> 01:23:16,930 of airplanes you know or is it is it a 1810 01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:19,390 planet you know can I check that kind of 1811 01:23:24,780 --> 01:23:22,210 thing you know could it be a journal or 1812 01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:24,790 a little bubble blah I mean that's the 1813 01:23:29,940 --> 01:23:27,250 conclusion people should jump to first 1814 01:23:31,290 --> 01:23:29,950 not not the unknown so I mean that would 1815 01:23:34,380 --> 01:23:31,300 be really helpful if people were 1816 01:23:36,660 --> 01:23:34,390 educated enough to you know make that 1817 01:23:39,270 --> 01:23:36,670 determination on their own so that you 1818 01:23:41,100 --> 01:23:39,280 know MUFON doesn't have you know I don't 1819 01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:41,110 have to be the bad guy investigator to 1820 01:23:45,060 --> 01:23:43,330 say you have you saw Chinese lanterns 1821 01:23:47,610 --> 01:23:45,070 you know but however that's not the 1822 01:23:49,050 --> 01:23:47,620 state that we're in and so we have to 1823 01:23:52,860 --> 01:23:49,060 deal with what we're dealing with and 1824 01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:52,870 the fact is is that yeah you I know I 1825 01:23:57,690 --> 01:23:55,210 first got into ufology I was a total 1826 01:24:00,450 --> 01:23:57,700 nuts and bolts guy however as time has 1827 01:24:02,100 --> 01:24:00,460 gone on you know beginning to realize 1828 01:24:05,220 --> 01:24:02,110 there seems to be something more to it 1829 01:24:07,170 --> 01:24:05,230 what it is I don't know but you know to 1830 01:24:10,230 --> 01:24:07,180 Rich's point earlier look there's a ton 1831 01:24:12,070 --> 01:24:10,240 of data that can be derived from the 1832 01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:12,080 observations that we have in 1833 01:24:15,970 --> 01:24:13,970 fermentation you know all of those 1834 01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:15,980 things that's scientific that's physical 1835 01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:18,170 and that's real however there's another 1836 01:24:23,050 --> 01:24:21,410 part of this that isn't identifiable by 1837 01:24:25,900 --> 01:24:23,060 those means or measurable by the 1838 01:24:28,150 --> 01:24:25,910 instruments in them methodologies that 1839 01:24:30,580 --> 01:24:28,160 we have and so that's where you have to 1840 01:24:33,430 --> 01:24:30,590 be open-minded and and you cannot 1841 01:24:35,380 --> 01:24:33,440 discount information or data be it be a 1842 01:24:37,870 --> 01:24:35,390 witness testimony or something else 1843 01:24:40,570 --> 01:24:37,880 because it doesn't fit your perspective 1844 01:24:42,310 --> 01:24:40,580 you know of what it could be so you know 1845 01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:42,320 is investigated really trying going as 1846 01:24:48,370 --> 01:24:45,290 unbiased as possible not pro UFO not 1847 01:24:50,230 --> 01:24:48,380 negative UFO and just look at the data 1848 01:24:51,940 --> 01:24:50,240 and put all those pieces together and 1849 01:24:53,950 --> 01:24:51,950 then see what kind of picture is painted 1850 01:24:56,170 --> 01:24:53,960 I guess the last thing I'll say is when 1851 01:24:58,870 --> 01:24:56,180 I do interview someone I always ask this 1852 01:25:01,300 --> 01:24:58,880 question and it's really interesting 1853 01:25:04,660 --> 01:25:01,310 that the responses that you can get but 1854 01:25:07,090 --> 01:25:04,670 I will say if you could put into a few 1855 01:25:09,130 --> 01:25:07,100 words or a single sentence what is it 1856 01:25:12,250 --> 01:25:09,140 about what you saw that caused you to 1857 01:25:14,860 --> 01:25:12,260 think that is a UFO as opposed to 1858 01:25:17,860 --> 01:25:14,870 something prosaic like an aircraft or a 1859 01:25:19,210 --> 01:25:17,870 balloon or whatever and I get some 1860 01:25:21,190 --> 01:25:19,220 really interesting results 1861 01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:21,200 some people get stymied by that they're 1862 01:25:26,410 --> 01:25:24,410 like I can't I can't tell you or others 1863 01:25:28,270 --> 01:25:26,420 say definitely it was you know the 1864 01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:28,280 behavior the movement or the color or 1865 01:25:32,980 --> 01:25:30,770 something like that but it you know this 1866 01:25:35,260 --> 01:25:32,990 is really about how people interpret 1867 01:25:37,150 --> 01:25:35,270 what they're seeing and so that that to 1868 01:25:40,330 --> 01:25:37,160 me if we just like this program we're 1869 01:25:42,430 --> 01:25:40,340 educating people on what to look for how 1870 01:25:45,130 --> 01:25:42,440 to view it what you are seeing and you 1871 01:25:47,620 --> 01:25:45,140 know try and be scientific first do that 1872 01:25:49,810 --> 01:25:47,630 process of elimination what are the ten 1873 01:25:51,370 --> 01:25:49,820 prosaic things this could be now if 1874 01:25:53,590 --> 01:25:51,380 you're out in the middle of nowhere I 1875 01:25:55,510 --> 01:25:53,600 mean hundreds of miles from any city any 1876 01:25:57,730 --> 01:25:55,520 anything and you're seeing something 1877 01:25:59,440 --> 01:25:57,740 quite strange hey that that's there's a 1878 01:26:03,190 --> 01:25:59,450 very good chance that something unknown 1879 01:26:05,710 --> 01:26:03,200 however otherwise know your surroundings 1880 01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:05,720 know the context and try and be 1881 01:26:10,570 --> 01:26:08,570 scientific in your view I wanted to 1882 01:26:13,390 --> 01:26:10,580 bring up something else but I just want 1883 01:26:15,610 --> 01:26:13,400 to make a comment why does it seem like 1884 01:26:19,770 --> 01:26:15,620 we are the backwoods people in that 1885 01:26:23,230 --> 01:26:19,780 movie deliverance and the possible et 1886 01:26:25,930 --> 01:26:23,240 civilizations are the ones that are 1887 01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:25,940 looking at us like we are out 1888 01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:28,890 it just took it just comes across me 1889 01:26:33,620 --> 01:26:30,930 like that I don't know anyway maybe it's 1890 01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:33,630 just me but well yeah let me let me jump 1891 01:26:37,670 --> 01:26:35,610 in here chant and ask her question it 1892 01:26:39,620 --> 01:26:37,680 seems to me with all this gear that's 1893 01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:39,630 suddenly available these apps that are 1894 01:26:45,310 --> 01:26:42,090 suddenly available for regular folks for 1895 01:26:48,380 --> 01:26:45,320 a long time now exoplanet hunters have 1896 01:26:53,180 --> 01:26:48,390 used sort of just regular folks there's 1897 01:26:55,550 --> 01:26:53,190 a SETI at home program there is you know 1898 01:26:59,300 --> 01:26:55,560 programs where our folks can download 1899 01:27:01,160 --> 01:26:59,310 data and help in identifying exoplanets 1900 01:27:05,090 --> 01:27:01,170 out of their home computers that type of 1901 01:27:07,430 --> 01:27:05,100 thing it it looks to me like maybe the 1902 01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:07,440 UFO field is a sort of heading in that 1903 01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:08,250 direction 1904 01:27:13,220 --> 01:27:10,650 becoming a lot more open in terms of 1905 01:27:15,580 --> 01:27:13,230 gathering and sharing data and just 1906 01:27:18,500 --> 01:27:15,590 looking to get anybody so thoughts on 1907 01:27:22,430 --> 01:27:18,510 that kind of thing right are we seeing a 1908 01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:22,440 sort of a UFO research at home or from 1909 01:27:32,750 --> 01:27:30,560 anybody well I think so and those apps 1910 01:27:35,959 --> 01:27:32,760 are something to prove that right right 1911 01:27:38,060 --> 01:27:35,969 the capability that that's what the 1912 01:27:40,310 --> 01:27:38,070 difference is is I mean I'm blown away 1913 01:27:42,350 --> 01:27:40,320 by phone applications compared to even 1914 01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:42,360 our computer I mean the things you can 1915 01:27:47,959 --> 01:27:44,010 do with that thing in your hand is 1916 01:27:50,900 --> 01:27:47,969 absolutely a mind-blower and that that 1917 01:27:52,820 --> 01:27:50,910 availability and that simplicity and the 1918 01:27:56,090 --> 01:27:52,830 efficiency of how well those things work 1919 01:27:57,830 --> 01:27:56,100 and and the ubiquitousness of a cell 1920 01:27:59,900 --> 01:27:57,840 phone usage in possession is 1921 01:28:02,030 --> 01:27:59,910 unbelievable so I mean I think you're 1922 01:28:04,580 --> 01:28:02,040 right Frank that it's gonna be citizen 1923 01:28:07,189 --> 01:28:04,590 UFO investigators in a lot of way and 1924 01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:07,199 and again the more that we talk this up 1925 01:28:11,930 --> 01:28:09,810 and the more disclosure occurs and 1926 01:28:14,300 --> 01:28:11,940 people become familiar and not so scared 1927 01:28:16,550 --> 01:28:14,310 of the issue that yeah we're gonna see 1928 01:28:18,350 --> 01:28:16,560 an uptick in that and I think it will be 1929 01:28:20,209 --> 01:28:18,360 helpful of course we'll have to sift 1930 01:28:23,540 --> 01:28:20,219 through you know sort of the nonsense 1931 01:28:28,520 --> 01:28:23,550 but you know that it should elicit some 1932 01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:28,530 scientific data that's of use yeah let 1933 01:28:34,390 --> 01:28:31,610 me uh this is Michael again real quick 1934 01:28:37,310 --> 01:28:34,400 you know we're also looking at the 1935 01:28:38,850 --> 01:28:37,320 capability of the people who use the 1936 01:28:41,460 --> 01:28:38,860 phones currently 1937 01:28:43,410 --> 01:28:41,470 and when we're looking to the future the 1938 01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:43,420 the young Millennials and the Zoomers 1939 01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:45,810 out there they are way beyond our 1940 01:28:50,190 --> 01:28:48,610 capability right now and using these 1941 01:28:54,390 --> 01:28:50,200 apps so I'll tell you what there is 1942 01:28:58,110 --> 01:28:54,400 going to be a hone in on disclosure very 1943 01:29:01,320 --> 01:28:58,120 shortly as these young people get into 1944 01:29:03,900 --> 01:29:01,330 the idea that UFOs can be tracked and 1945 01:29:06,660 --> 01:29:03,910 the data can be recorded right on their 1946 01:29:08,310 --> 01:29:06,670 phone with all of these technical gear 1947 01:29:11,250 --> 01:29:08,320 and everything at their fingertips so 1948 01:29:14,100 --> 01:29:11,260 I'm assuming that it's not going to be 1949 01:29:16,230 --> 01:29:14,110 too long before disclosure will actually 1950 01:29:21,770 --> 01:29:16,240 happen because of too many people 1951 01:29:28,050 --> 01:29:23,760 seem to be this is Earl 1952 01:29:30,030 --> 01:29:28,060 again I seem to be getting more Ryu fo 1953 01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:30,040 reports where people do their own 1954 01:29:36,390 --> 01:29:33,010 research before they put in their report 1955 01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:36,400 you know I and sometimes their military 1956 01:29:42,500 --> 01:29:38,770 you know I had it had like a ex Air 1957 01:29:45,270 --> 01:29:42,510 Force guy who who saw the StarLink 1958 01:29:47,730 --> 01:29:45,280 SpaceX satellite train and a lot of 1959 01:29:48,300 --> 01:29:47,740 people saw that I guess that am I 1960 01:29:51,900 --> 01:29:48,310 correct 1961 01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:51,910 Shane I guess that Phoenix MUFON got 1962 01:29:57,330 --> 01:29:53,650 eight different cases I think we got 1963 01:29:59,360 --> 01:29:57,340 three yeah yeah yeah and it looks weird 1964 01:30:02,520 --> 01:29:59,370 I mean there are these evenly spaced 1965 01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:02,530 lights and and and this guy he was 1966 01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:04,450 perplexed he said well I checked you 1967 01:30:08,850 --> 01:30:06,970 know I checked my you know plane radar 1968 01:30:11,370 --> 01:30:08,860 he had the radar app on his phone you 1969 01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:11,380 know and and he isn't even a MUFON 1970 01:30:17,610 --> 01:30:13,570 member I told hey you should join MUFON 1971 01:30:19,440 --> 01:30:17,620 we need we need guys but you know I mean 1972 01:30:22,230 --> 01:30:19,450 it's dumped even some of our you know 1973 01:30:25,050 --> 01:30:22,240 better people and and luckily I had been 1974 01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:25,060 aware of the launch 1975 01:30:30,990 --> 01:30:28,690 I think November 11th and but it looks 1976 01:30:32,550 --> 01:30:31,000 very strange and people reported it you 1977 01:30:34,950 --> 01:30:32,560 know and and so I do think people are 1978 01:30:38,100 --> 01:30:34,960 looking up people are are kind of doing 1979 01:30:39,540 --> 01:30:38,110 their own of course you got the the guys 1980 01:30:43,230 --> 01:30:39,550 that just you know are addicted to 1981 01:30:44,970 --> 01:30:43,240 ancient aliens and stuff and and you 1982 01:30:48,210 --> 01:30:44,980 know everything for them is is always 1983 01:30:50,430 --> 01:30:48,220 going to be a UFO unfortunately but I do 1984 01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:50,440 think that you're correct that Michael 1985 01:30:53,940 --> 01:30:51,850 is correct about the the 1986 01:30:56,640 --> 01:30:53,950 Millennials and people are being a 1987 01:30:58,680 --> 01:30:56,650 little more proactive about you know 1988 01:31:02,280 --> 01:30:58,690 trying to figure out what it could have 1989 01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:02,290 been that they saw so it's different 1990 01:31:06,870 --> 01:31:04,210 than it was even just three years ago I 1991 01:31:10,650 --> 01:31:06,880 I see a little bit more proactiveness 1992 01:31:13,170 --> 01:31:10,660 and the public are you guys wear a Shane 1993 01:31:15,660 --> 01:31:13,180 and Earl I know you're a really 1994 01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:15,670 proactive on not gathering at different 1995 01:31:21,750 --> 01:31:18,730 sightings through MUFON are you got a 1996 01:31:24,330 --> 01:31:21,760 and s Steve to also with the the 1997 01:31:27,690 --> 01:31:24,340 International MUFON are you guys seeing 1998 01:31:30,510 --> 01:31:27,700 any cases where there's some payoff from 1999 01:31:32,220 --> 01:31:30,520 these kind of apps being readily used in 2000 01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:32,230 you point to any particular case where 2001 01:31:35,790 --> 01:31:34,210 there's like okay great this guy's got 2002 01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:35,800 this that that makes it a much better 2003 01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:42,970 case right now where the guy used 2004 01:31:47,430 --> 01:31:45,250 satellite tracker and he was able to eat 2005 01:31:49,620 --> 01:31:47,440 he notated that there were no satellites 2006 01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:49,630 in the sky at the time that he saw what 2007 01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:52,690 he saw but again his report is a light 2008 01:31:56,580 --> 01:31:55,210 in the sky and I'm not sure you know you 2009 01:32:00,900 --> 01:31:56,590 know you know how much I love light in 2010 01:32:03,090 --> 01:32:00,910 the sky report right well yeah that 2011 01:32:05,790 --> 01:32:03,100 could have been it could have been a 2012 01:32:07,950 --> 01:32:05,800 secret project you know black budget 2013 01:32:11,490 --> 01:32:07,960 stuff you know I mean people see a lot 2014 01:32:13,530 --> 01:32:11,500 of satellite activity that that moves 2015 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:13,540 strangely and goes out of the ecliptic 2016 01:32:19,440 --> 01:32:16,810 for a bet and and you know you it's so 2017 01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:19,450 it seems so often that you have to 2018 01:32:24,390 --> 01:32:21,850 figure that it's probably you know some 2019 01:32:26,940 --> 01:32:24,400 black ops satellite that we have that 2020 01:32:28,740 --> 01:32:26,950 can move you know on its own accord but 2021 01:32:30,930 --> 01:32:28,750 you know I talked to it a little bit to 2022 01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:30,940 chase clots key about that recently and 2023 01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:33,370 and yeah you know just because it moves 2024 01:32:39,150 --> 01:32:36,250 angularly doesn't mean that it's not a 2025 01:32:43,170 --> 01:32:39,160 satellite these days so that's something 2026 01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:43,180 to think about satellite tracker if it's 2027 01:32:48,090 --> 01:32:47,530 a black budget exactly exactly yeah very 2028 01:32:49,950 --> 01:32:48,100 good point 2029 01:32:55,290 --> 01:32:49,960 somebody else was breaking in who was 2030 01:32:58,740 --> 01:32:55,300 that well that was rich but since we're 2031 01:33:01,920 --> 01:32:58,750 talking about satellites first off 2032 01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:01,930 there's a there's probably about 50 2033 01:33:05,729 --> 01:33:05,050 satellites at any one time directly 2034 01:33:08,069 --> 01:33:05,739 above 2035 01:33:09,270 --> 01:33:08,079 if you just open up the geo sat watch 2036 01:33:12,149 --> 01:33:09,280 you'll see that there's always 2037 01:33:14,939 --> 01:33:12,159 satellites above you the second point I 2038 01:33:18,169 --> 01:33:14,949 mention is that Philippe aleris who 2039 01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:18,179 presented at the seu conference in March 2040 01:33:26,899 --> 01:33:24,610 presented on using to do UFO research by 2041 01:33:28,830 --> 01:33:26,909 using the European Space Agency 2042 01:33:32,279 --> 01:33:28,840 satellites they're doing earth 2043 01:33:35,129 --> 01:33:32,289 observation and you would be able to 2044 01:33:38,729 --> 01:33:35,139 actually look at the live data feeds 2045 01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:38,739 from satellites going across and then 2046 01:33:43,049 --> 01:33:41,530 might be able to be used for UFO 2047 01:33:44,910 --> 01:33:43,059 investigator I think we need to get to 2048 01:33:47,009 --> 01:33:44,920 the point the fact that if we've got 2049 01:33:50,069 --> 01:33:47,019 satellites that can detect everything 2050 01:33:51,390 --> 01:33:50,079 down below I mean it literally in the 2051 01:33:53,580 --> 01:33:51,400 military we've got satellites you can 2052 01:33:56,759 --> 01:33:53,590 see a golf ball and read the golf ball 2053 01:34:00,000 --> 01:33:56,769 from you know on the ground that there's 2054 01:34:02,299 --> 01:34:00,010 no reason why we aren't we shouldn't be 2055 01:34:05,549 --> 01:34:02,309 able to or encourage the use of 2056 01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:05,559 satellites to be able to do most all of 2057 01:34:12,209 --> 01:34:09,130 us being civilians using a satellite 2058 01:34:14,459 --> 01:34:12,219 system yeah I mean while European Space 2059 01:34:17,790 --> 01:34:14,469 Agency's Earth Observation stuff is all 2060 01:34:21,140 --> 01:34:17,800 available to the open public okay but my 2061 01:34:25,979 --> 01:34:21,150 point there is I'm getting that again is 2062 01:34:27,750 --> 01:34:25,989 that we are so monitored from space that 2063 01:34:31,649 --> 01:34:27,760 there is at any one time 2064 01:34:35,970 --> 01:34:31,659 I don't care where the UFO is it should 2065 01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:35,980 be observable from a sideline and and I 2066 01:34:39,930 --> 01:34:37,690 guess what I'm trying to say is that you 2067 01:34:41,790 --> 01:34:39,940 really want to do justice to figuring 2068 01:34:43,350 --> 01:34:41,800 this all out we need to be able to start 2069 01:34:45,540 --> 01:34:43,360 leveraging some of these tools that 2070 01:34:48,689 --> 01:34:45,550 we've already spent oodles of money on 2071 01:34:51,899 --> 01:34:48,699 and doing this and that will give us a 2072 01:34:54,180 --> 01:34:51,909 lot of data okay I wanted to make a few 2073 01:34:55,319 --> 01:34:54,190 comments that I think are actually 2074 01:34:57,569 --> 01:34:55,329 really important one is the 2075 01:35:01,319 --> 01:34:57,579 International Space Station for NASA can 2076 01:35:03,569 --> 01:35:01,329 be seen by the naked eye also wanted to 2077 01:35:05,879 --> 01:35:03,579 point out there's an individual involved 2078 01:35:08,759 --> 01:35:05,889 in ufology I'm not going to mention any 2079 01:35:12,029 --> 01:35:08,769 names this person has a Sky Watch 2080 01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:12,039 program that this they have had for many 2081 01:35:19,350 --> 01:35:16,690 years and this individual and I have had 2082 01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:19,360 arguments regarding 2083 01:35:24,780 --> 01:35:23,650 this person training people in a fashion 2084 01:35:29,250 --> 01:35:24,790 that is incorrect 2085 01:35:32,250 --> 01:35:29,260 regarding what UFOs are and satellites 2086 01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:32,260 are so when she's using the 2087 01:35:39,750 --> 01:35:36,130 military-grade binoculars to hand around 2088 01:35:41,910 --> 01:35:39,760 to folks for her groups she and she's 2089 01:35:44,340 --> 01:35:41,920 told me this she truly believes she's 2090 01:35:47,490 --> 01:35:44,350 looking at et related craft in the sky 2091 01:35:49,290 --> 01:35:47,500 when really it is just satellites that 2092 01:35:51,689 --> 01:35:49,300 they're looking at wanted to point out 2093 01:35:53,459 --> 01:35:51,699 something else about satellites and that 2094 01:35:55,350 --> 01:35:53,469 is a lot of people need to understand 2095 01:35:57,030 --> 01:35:55,360 that there are an awful lot of stuff 2096 01:35:59,550 --> 01:35:57,040 like I don't know the number I don't 2097 01:36:02,700 --> 01:35:59,560 think anybody really does thousands that 2098 01:36:06,930 --> 01:36:02,710 could be write that book that could be 2099 01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:06,940 top-secret related and so you might you 2100 01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:09,250 might use a satellite tracking app but 2101 01:36:12,479 --> 01:36:10,570 it's not going to tell you all the 2102 01:36:14,939 --> 01:36:12,489 satellites that are truly out there the 2103 01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:14,949 other thing I wanted to mention is dr. 2104 01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:16,690 Irina Scott brought up in our last 2105 01:36:21,930 --> 01:36:20,170 program stereoscopy equipment used in 2106 01:36:24,780 --> 01:36:21,940 aerial photography which is what she 2107 01:36:28,859 --> 01:36:24,790 used and her boss used when she worked 2108 01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:28,869 for the government and that's when two 2109 01:36:34,470 --> 01:36:31,810 photographs overlap over the same ground 2110 01:36:37,109 --> 01:36:34,480 area they're photographed from two 2111 01:36:39,149 --> 01:36:37,119 separate positions and it forms a stereo 2112 01:36:43,350 --> 01:36:39,159 pair and it's used for three-dimensional 2113 01:36:45,090 --> 01:36:43,360 viewing so that it's interesting if 2114 01:36:47,910 --> 01:36:45,100 you're able to actually use that kind of 2115 01:36:49,740 --> 01:36:47,920 equipment to get something that is 2116 01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:49,750 anomalous because you'll get two 2117 01:36:54,899 --> 01:36:53,290 different pictures also wanted to bring 2118 01:36:56,220 --> 01:36:54,909 up something interesting that a friend 2119 01:36:58,470 --> 01:36:56,230 of mine brought up brought to my 2120 01:37:00,750 --> 01:36:58,480 attention and he said during the Blitz 2121 01:37:03,780 --> 01:37:00,760 which was a German bombing campaign 2122 01:37:05,330 --> 01:37:03,790 against the United Kingdom in 1940 1941 2123 01:37:11,419 --> 01:37:05,340 during the Second World War 2124 01:37:17,760 --> 01:37:15,090 look up at the sky for objects in the 2125 01:37:20,609 --> 01:37:17,770 sky at all times and I think that's 2126 01:37:22,919 --> 01:37:20,619 interesting regarding history that's it 2127 01:37:25,649 --> 01:37:22,929 that's what I had to say um could I 2128 01:37:28,830 --> 01:37:25,659 throw in two yeah at the bootcamp Mark 2129 01:37:31,140 --> 01:37:28,840 Dantonio was explaining some information 2130 01:37:32,459 --> 01:37:31,150 about satellites that I was unaware he 2131 01:37:35,729 --> 01:37:32,469 says that there are 2132 01:37:40,049 --> 01:37:35,739 lights that travel in pairs that travel 2133 01:37:42,029 --> 01:37:40,059 in triplet like a triangle and even 2134 01:37:44,129 --> 01:37:42,039 quadruple and that they have the 2135 01:37:47,609 --> 01:37:44,139 capability to either be you know 2136 01:37:50,149 --> 01:37:47,619 stationary in terms of the position of 2137 01:37:53,339 --> 01:37:50,159 each other or they can even move and 2138 01:37:55,439 --> 01:37:53,349 that would appear to be a very strange 2139 01:37:58,529 --> 01:37:55,449 thing to see right and there is always 2140 01:38:03,469 --> 01:37:58,539 that common sighting of Oh a triangle 2141 01:38:06,959 --> 01:38:03,479 really far up and in fact it could be 2142 01:38:08,939 --> 01:38:06,969 you know a configuration of satellites 2143 01:38:12,029 --> 01:38:08,949 like three satellites at each you know 2144 01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:12,039 corner point of a triangle so I was 2145 01:38:16,500 --> 01:38:13,690 unaware of that and I thought that was 2146 01:38:18,540 --> 01:38:16,510 very interesting and useful that's super 2147 01:38:20,520 --> 01:38:18,550 actually they have to know that that's 2148 01:38:22,529 --> 01:38:20,530 very very important for people no I've 2149 01:38:26,100 --> 01:38:22,539 never even heard of that I've never seen 2150 01:38:27,689 --> 01:38:26,110 anything that was like that that turned 2151 01:38:29,339 --> 01:38:27,699 out to be that it was four satellites 2152 01:38:34,379 --> 01:38:29,349 that were actually working around each 2153 01:38:37,919 --> 01:38:34,389 other yeah I think that's very useful I 2154 01:38:41,430 --> 01:38:37,929 had not known that okay it looks like we 2155 01:38:45,359 --> 01:38:41,440 have dr. Irina Scott with us and dr. 2156 01:38:49,890 --> 01:38:45,369 Irina hi how are you hi I didn't know I 2157 01:38:51,330 --> 01:38:49,900 was supposed to be here we are so glad 2158 01:38:53,969 --> 01:38:51,340 to have you here I actually was just 2159 01:38:55,669 --> 01:38:53,979 talking about you and I was talking 2160 01:38:58,290 --> 01:38:55,679 about how you brought up the topic of 2161 01:39:00,450 --> 01:38:58,300 stereoscopy and when you work for the 2162 01:39:03,080 --> 01:39:00,460 government regarding aerial photography 2163 01:39:06,359 --> 01:39:03,090 and how important it was and 2164 01:39:10,879 --> 01:39:06,369 instrumental in that it actually allowed 2165 01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:10,889 for two different photographs to capture 2166 01:39:16,589 --> 01:39:13,570 possible anomalous activity not that it 2167 01:39:18,060 --> 01:39:16,599 was used necessarily for that but I just 2168 01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:18,070 thought that was an interesting point 2169 01:39:26,069 --> 01:39:21,610 that you made the last show yeah they 2170 01:39:29,399 --> 01:39:26,079 used it in mapping a lot to map contours 2171 01:39:32,219 --> 01:39:29,409 of mountains and things but it is very 2172 01:39:35,189 --> 01:39:32,229 handy because you can get a stereo shot 2173 01:39:38,310 --> 01:39:35,199 and if you take several you can see get 2174 01:39:41,430 --> 01:39:38,320 a good position for things cranes 2175 01:39:43,049 --> 01:39:41,440 everything like that yeah and also I 2176 01:39:46,620 --> 01:39:43,059 brought up something else that you 2177 01:39:48,480 --> 01:39:46,630 brought to our attention during the show 2178 01:39:51,120 --> 01:39:48,490 that we had on equipment tools and apps 2179 01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:51,130 to procure possible you ap activity in 2180 01:39:54,150 --> 01:39:52,690 the sky and that is a theory you 2181 01:39:57,270 --> 01:39:54,160 expressed in your book inside the 2182 01:40:00,150 --> 01:39:57,280 lightning ball and in your 2019 MUFON 2183 01:40:01,950 --> 01:40:00,160 symposium talk that some UFOs may be 2184 01:40:04,140 --> 01:40:01,960 images such as Holograms volumetric 2185 01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:04,150 display or similar things can you please 2186 01:40:10,890 --> 01:40:06,250 explain to us what volumetric display 2187 01:40:14,790 --> 01:40:10,900 means regarding that narrow topic it's a 2188 01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:14,800 it's like a hologram but it's where they 2189 01:40:21,630 --> 01:40:17,170 shine a light certain particles in the 2190 01:40:26,820 --> 01:40:21,640 air instead of the way to do Holograms 2191 01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:26,830 and it's it's you can see it from 2192 01:40:34,710 --> 01:40:29,050 different angles and that sort of thing 2193 01:40:37,380 --> 01:40:34,720 a fantastic and we are also just talking 2194 01:40:40,170 --> 01:40:37,390 about satellites and the difference 2195 01:40:43,500 --> 01:40:40,180 between satellites and actually how to 2196 01:40:45,060 --> 01:40:43,510 how to spot them in the sky so I'm just 2197 01:40:46,290 --> 01:40:45,070 really glad you were able to join us is 2198 01:40:49,440 --> 01:40:46,300 there anything else you'd like to add 2199 01:40:52,710 --> 01:40:49,450 regarding equipment tools applications 2200 01:40:55,100 --> 01:40:52,720 and just skill sets to attain in order 2201 01:41:04,280 --> 01:40:55,110 to discern what could be anomalous 2202 01:41:13,500 --> 01:41:06,540 anything like that and you don't think 2203 01:41:15,030 --> 01:41:13,510 you can because they get a horrible 2204 01:41:18,210 --> 01:41:15,040 picture and don't even think you have 2205 01:41:20,340 --> 01:41:18,220 someone you might get one great and yeah 2206 01:41:22,890 --> 01:41:20,350 we were also talking about exif data and 2207 01:41:26,730 --> 01:41:22,900 actually you spoke about that last show 2208 01:41:29,310 --> 01:41:26,740 and that that extra exchangeable image 2209 01:41:32,490 --> 01:41:29,320 format is really important for forensic 2210 01:41:35,130 --> 01:41:32,500 information in order to discern what 2211 01:41:37,250 --> 01:41:35,140 kind of digital picture it is somebody's 2212 01:41:42,240 --> 01:41:37,260 looking at see if it's been manipulated 2213 01:41:44,250 --> 01:41:42,250 yeah because if somebody sends a fake 2214 01:41:53,370 --> 01:41:44,260 picture and they don't know that you can 2215 01:41:55,950 --> 01:41:53,380 check on it like I learned that from you 2216 01:41:58,650 --> 01:41:55,960 know you can think it looks pretty close 2217 01:41:59,969 --> 01:41:58,660 pretty easily but then also for your own 2218 01:42:04,859 --> 01:41:59,979 information 2219 01:42:06,750 --> 01:42:04,869 that data is very useful - great well I 2220 01:42:08,189 --> 01:42:06,760 want to thank everybody for having been 2221 01:42:10,109 --> 01:42:08,199 on our show today Frank do you have 2222 01:42:11,669 --> 01:42:10,119 anything else you would like to add yeah 2223 01:42:14,669 --> 01:42:11,679 I think I've we're just about ready to 2224 01:42:17,250 --> 01:42:14,679 go just a final comment this is what 2225 01:42:20,040 --> 01:42:17,260 we're into is all about that gathering 2226 01:42:22,430 --> 01:42:20,050 and sharing data about what we find no 2227 01:42:26,069 --> 01:42:22,440 matter how it manifests itself and 2228 01:42:28,799 --> 01:42:26,079 that's what we're here for and just glad 2229 01:42:30,330 --> 01:42:28,809 to be a part of all this I wanted to 2230 01:42:33,089 --> 01:42:30,340 mention one last thing I'm very sorry 2231 01:42:34,799 --> 01:42:33,099 Frank I always do this to you and that 2232 01:42:37,350 --> 01:42:34,809 is there's a gentleman by the name of 2233 01:42:39,899 --> 01:42:37,360 Ron LAN Hamm who is going to join us for 2234 01:42:42,870 --> 01:42:39,909 the show today but he he had to beg out 2235 01:42:45,899 --> 01:42:42,880 due to work but he wanted us to know 2236 01:42:48,120 --> 01:42:45,909 this best equipment he has ever used in 2237 01:42:50,399 --> 01:42:48,130 his opinion was a seven by fifty 2238 01:42:53,609 --> 01:42:50,409 binoculars he does have a Trifield meter 2239 01:42:55,799 --> 01:42:53,619 for various things and it's set to 2240 01:42:57,540 --> 01:42:55,809 magnetic he has to be careful with 2241 01:42:59,850 --> 01:42:57,550 sensitivity on this as it can pick up 2242 01:43:02,339 --> 01:42:59,860 any disturbance in an e/m filled even 2243 01:43:05,669 --> 01:43:02,349 lightning and meteorites he uses and 2244 01:43:07,799 --> 01:43:05,679 recommends the app plane vent finder ar 2245 01:43:11,209 --> 01:43:07,809 it has ruled out many strange lights 2246 01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:11,219 keep it in mind it does not list ever 2247 01:43:17,549 --> 01:43:14,050 flights such as military drone activity 2248 01:43:19,290 --> 01:43:17,559 but it does help and he says he doesn't 2249 01:43:22,709 --> 01:43:19,300 have any night-vision equipment yet but 2250 01:43:25,319 --> 01:43:22,719 he would add a pair of nvg goggles to 2251 01:43:27,930 --> 01:43:25,329 any field kit if you can afford to do so 2252 01:43:31,979 --> 01:43:27,940 take an audio recorder for notes and log 2253 01:43:33,540 --> 01:43:31,989 anything you see on that date time and 2254 01:43:35,759 --> 01:43:33,550 description of what you're seeing and 2255 01:43:37,649 --> 01:43:35,769 feeling this can be the best evidence if 2256 01:43:39,270 --> 01:43:37,659 it compares to another independent 2257 01:43:41,219 --> 01:43:39,280 witness from your area which I know 2258 01:43:43,290 --> 01:43:41,229 everyone on our panel would agree with 2259 01:43:45,989 --> 01:43:43,300 because that's just normal regarding 2260 01:43:47,430 --> 01:43:45,999 MUFON investigations yeah we don't 2261 01:43:49,500 --> 01:43:47,440 really talk about the old-school 2262 01:43:50,549 --> 01:43:49,510 binoculars but they can be a lot of help 2263 01:43:56,069 --> 01:43:50,559 to if you're out in the field looking 2264 01:43:57,689 --> 01:43:56,079 for something oh yeah yeah oh yeah okay 2265 01:44:00,239 --> 01:43:57,699 well Frank did you have anything else 2266 01:44:02,430 --> 01:44:00,249 that we are good to go okay Randy 2267 01:44:07,199 --> 01:44:02,440 everyone else in our panel have anything 2268 01:44:09,530 --> 01:44:07,209 any last things to add uh apologize I 2269 01:44:11,790 --> 01:44:09,540 wasn't even here 2270 01:44:14,010 --> 01:44:11,800 well we're just grateful you were able 2271 01:44:15,960 --> 01:44:14,020 to join us at the at the moment you did 2272 01:44:17,610 --> 01:44:15,970 so thank you for having joined us doctor 2273 01:44:25,110 --> 01:44:17,620 we really appreciate your time dr. Irena 2274 01:44:27,030 --> 01:44:25,120 Scott well thanks thanks a lot for 2275 01:44:31,530 --> 01:44:27,040 coming on and we're going to wrap up 2276 01:44:33,330 --> 01:44:31,540 here now is that the show with with 2277 01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:33,340 Francis is that going to be on this week 2278 01:44:39,510 --> 01:44:37,570 or next Wednesday Chet Oh that'll be on 2279 01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:39,520 this week thank you okay 2280 01:44:45,450 --> 01:44:41,530 with Francis Ridge regarding made our 2281 01:44:46,890 --> 01:44:45,460 and and that will be on Wednesday at 2282 01:44:50,130 --> 01:44:46,900 7:00 p.m. 2283 01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:50,140 Arizona time which is 9:00 p.m. Eastern 2284 01:44:58,560 --> 01:44:55,090 Time to whatever it is Pacific time 9:00 2285 01:45:00,930 --> 01:44:58,570 p.m. Eastern Time Eastern you ac6 here 2286 01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:00,940 six six there you go there you go 2287 01:45:05,340 --> 01:45:02,970 all right well thanks a lot everybody 2288 01:45:08,280 --> 01:45:05,350 have a great day enjoy the rest of your 2289 01:45:08,790 --> 01:45:08,290 weekend folks listening in and bye-bye